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https://designers-guide.org/forum/YaBB.pl Design >> Analog Design >> Sampling in AFE https://designers-guide.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1259308810 Message started by Mayank on Nov 27th, 2009, 12:00am |
Title: Sampling in AFE Post by Mayank on Nov 27th, 2009, 12:00am Hi all, I am currently working on an Analog Front End Design. According to Wimax specifications, I need to sample my ADC at 179.2 MHz instead of usual 160 MHz.... So I need to generate a fractional Frequency. Two ways :-- 1. Fractional PLL -- frequency averaged out by the loop & i get nearly exact 179.2 MHz. 2. Integer PLL with S-D Modulated Fractional Post Divider -- Basically Out of the Loop Fractional division with Sigma-Delta Modulation. -- Provides a output clock whose Frequency varies around an average value of 179.2MHz But the clock from solution 2 is not a clock with exact constant frequency of 179.2MHz as opposed to solution 1. Can such a clock with an average freq around 179.2 MHz but not exact, be used as a SAMPLING CLOCK for ADC ??? --mayank. |
Title: Re: Sampling in AFE Post by pancho_hideboo on Nov 28th, 2009, 11:09am I assume your ADC is not undersampling. Is this right ? Mayank wrote on Nov 27th, 2009, 12:00am:
Assume IF signal is downconverted from RF by mixing with Fractional PLL based LO. Then assume ADC sampled by true 179.2MHz. This might be equivalent to the following. - IF signal is downconverted from RF by mixing with integer PLL based LO. - ADC sampled by Fractional PLL based 179.2MHz. I think reasonable estimation of SNR degradation due to sampling jitter is required for further proceeding. |
Title: Re: Sampling in AFE Post by Mayank on Nov 29th, 2009, 8:48pm Hello Pancho, Quote:
Quote:
& What do you mean by Quote:
thanx, Mayank. |
Title: Re: Sampling in AFE Post by pancho_hideboo on Nov 30th, 2009, 3:05am Mayank wrote on Nov 29th, 2009, 8:48pm:
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Title: Re: Sampling in AFE Post by Mayank on Nov 30th, 2009, 3:11am Quote:
but doesnt the Loop Filter in the Fractional PLL (with Fractional division inside the Loop) filter out the modulation & provide a true 179.2MHz ?? mayank |
Title: Re: Sampling in AFE Post by pancho_hideboo on Nov 30th, 2009, 3:18am Mayank wrote on Nov 30th, 2009, 3:11am:
Do you understand requirements of sampling clock jitter for achieving target SNR in ADC ? |
Title: Re: Sampling in AFE Post by Mayank on Nov 30th, 2009, 3:31am Quote:
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Title: Re: Sampling in AFE Post by pancho_hideboo on Nov 30th, 2009, 3:34am Mayank wrote on Nov 30th, 2009, 3:31am:
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Title: Re: Sampling in AFE Post by Mayank on Nov 30th, 2009, 3:35am Quote:
So you mean Fractional PLL with Δ-Σ loop divider doesnt average out the division ratio and give a true 179.2MHz ?? I had thought that Δ-Σ loop division will give true 179.2 MHz WHILE Δ-Σ post o/p divider outside the loop will give avg 179.2MHz....Was i mistaken ?? Is the Integer PLL the only way of getting true 179.2 MHz clock ?? |
Title: Re: Sampling in AFE Post by Mayank on Nov 30th, 2009, 3:42am Quote:
But Pancho, my problem is that with an Integer PLL + an i/p ref freq of 13MHz, to get an o/p clock of 179.2MHz i need to oscillate at 896MHz (896/5 = 179.2 & [896 Loop Division / 13 Ip Division] * 13MHz = 896), My problem is that for fcomparison frequency of 1MHz (because of i/p Division factor of 13), i have to keep PLL BW very Low(<100kHz by gardner's limit)....Hence, Oscillator phase noise dominates hugely.....Phase Noise requirements for VCO become - 60dBc@10k -- near LC performance...Difficult to obtain through ring Osci.... Is there any workaround or i have burn such high power to obtain - 60dBc@10k from a ring Osci mayank |
Title: Re: Sampling in AFE Post by pancho_hideboo on Nov 30th, 2009, 3:43am Mayank wrote on Nov 30th, 2009, 3:35am:
Mayank wrote on Nov 30th, 2009, 3:35am:
Mayank wrote on Nov 30th, 2009, 3:35am:
But it is far clean than clock based on Fractional PLL. |
Title: Re: Sampling in AFE Post by Mayank on Nov 30th, 2009, 3:48am Quote:
I mean that --- 1. if you use a fractional PLL with Δ-Σ modulation in loop divider --- that should give you a true 179.2 MHz clock because Loop Filter will filter out the Loop Division factor modulation, hence o/p will settle at a constant fractional frequency. 2. If you use an integer PLL, and then do output clock's division in the post o/p divider employing Δ-Σ modulation, it should give you an average clock of 179.2MHz since the modulation is not filetered out... Are these statements incorrect ??? Quote:
I dont understand what you mean by dual-modulus PLL.....And what idea do you have in mind to obtain a cleaner clock than an integer PLL ?? mayank. |
Title: Re: Sampling in AFE Post by pancho_hideboo on Dec 5th, 2009, 4:35am Mayank wrote on Nov 30th, 2009, 3:48am:
See http://www.national.com/analog/timing/pll_designbook |
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