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flicker noise upconversion (Read 6757 times)
Ben
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flicker noise upconversion
Jan 04th, 2003, 1:38pm
 
Hi Ken, i have a question with one of your papers published here http://www.designers-guide.com/Theory/cyclo-paper.pdf, where you established that the transfer function of an oscillator for a noise perturbation to be inversely proportional to the frequency offset.  However in the other paper by you (introduction to rf simulation in JSSC), you said that there was no the explicit expression for the flicker noise upconversion yet (the 30db slope in the close in phase noise spectrum).  But i wonder why you can't start from the eq. 3 in the first article to derive a explicit one?  I am a bit lost here, so will be very grateful to your comments.

Ben
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Ken Kundert
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Re: flicker noise upconversion
Reply #1 - Jan 6th, 2003, 10:52am
 
Ben,
   When you say transfer function you have be careful to identify the output. There are two common cases, Sphi and Sv. Sphi represents the noise in the phase.  Sv represents the noise in voltage. The relationship between flicker noise and Sphi is straightforward. The transfer function between the noise source and the phase noise response is inversely proportional to the frequency offset, and so increases at a 20 db/dec rate as the offset frequency goes to 0. The flicker noise source increases at a rate of 10 dB/dec as the frequency goes to 0, so the oscillator phase noise increases at a 30 dB/dec rate as the offset frequency goes to 0. It is important to realize that the perturbation of the phase due to low frequency noise can be unbounded.  

At higher offset frequencies, where the phase noise is small, the voltage noise tracks the phase noise. If you double the phase noise you double the amplitude noise. However that cannot occur when the phase noise is large.  While the phase shift due to noise can be unbounded, the voltage noise that results from the phase shift can be no larger than the amplitude of the signal itself. So as the offset frequency approaches 0, Sphi can go to infinity, but Sv is bounded by the signal amplitude and so must roll off.

The point I was trying to make in the JSSC paper is that if flicker noise is present, there is no explicit formula that describes exactly how and where the roll off occurs.

-Ken
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Ben
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Re: flicker noise upconversion
Reply #2 - Jan 6th, 2003, 7:59pm
 
Thanks a lot for the explaination, Ken!
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Ken Kundert
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Re: flicker noise upconversion
Reply #3 - Jan 7th, 2003, 11:13am
 
Ben,
   I should point out that this low frequency roll-off in Sv generally occurs at such low frequencies that it is not usually of much concern. Also, you can estimate it by using the fact that the total area under Sv must equal the power of the signal.

-Ken
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