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Measure CPW (47/90/47) with probe pitch 200 um (Read 259 times)
giorgilloz
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Measure CPW (47/90/47) with probe pitch 200 um
Mar 04th, 2009, 3:09am
 
Hi

I'm measuring a MEMS Switch on CPW line with a slot of  47/90/47 using Karl Suss Probe pitch 200 um., TRL calibration and SOLT calibration but in both cases the Insertion Loss is characterized by oscillation.
Otherwise the width of the Ground Planes are 793 um  

Someone have any suggestion?
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pancho_hideboo
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Re: Measure CPW (47/90/47) with probe pitch 200 um
Reply #1 - Mar 4th, 2009, 4:34am
 
giorgilloz wrote on Mar 4th, 2009, 3:09am:
I'm measuring a MEMS Switch on CPW line with a slot of  47/90/47
Here 47um and 90um are width of slots ?
Or 90um is width of center line and 47um is width of slit between planar ground and center line ?

Attached S21 is insertion loss of MEMS Switch ?
If so, your MEMS Switch have same attenuation maximal point(around 27.5GHz) regardless of calibration methods ?

giorgilloz wrote on Mar 4th, 2009, 3:09am:
TRL calibration and SOLT calibration but in both cases the Insertion Loss is characterized by oscillation.
What calibration kits did you use ? Did you make them by yourself ?
Generally it is very difficult to prepare reliable calibration kits for SOLT calibration.

giorgilloz wrote on Mar 4th, 2009, 3:09am:
Otherwise the width of the Ground Planes are 793 um
What do you mean ?

giorgilloz wrote on Mar 4th, 2009, 3:09am:
Someone have any suggestion?
Maybe result of TRL calibration is reliable than SOLT calibration.
But there are frequencies(around 35GHz) where S21 is larger than 0dB in TRL calibration.
You should confirm validity of your calibration kits.

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giorgilloz
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Re: Measure CPW (47/90/47) with probe pitch 200 um
Reply #2 - Mar 9th, 2009, 4:14am
 
Hi pancho_hideboo

90 um is the width of the central conductor and 47 um is the distance between the central conductor and the ground plane (board to board)

For the SOLT calibration, of course, i used a commercial SOLT kit calibration of Karl SUSS.

I report also the width of the ground plane ("Otherwise the width of the Ground Planes are 793 um ") because i think the oscillations are due to the finite ground dimension of the line respect the pitch of the probe so RF signal can be reflected by the external boarder of the Ground plane.

What do you thinck about it?
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Re: Measure CPW (47/90/47) with probe pitch 200 um
Reply #3 - Mar 9th, 2009, 5:12am
 
giorgilloz wrote on Mar 9th, 2009, 4:14am:
47 um is the distance between the central conductor and the ground plane (board to board)

What do you mean by "board to board" ?

giorgilloz wrote on Mar 4th, 2009, 3:09am:
Otherwise the width of the Ground Planes are 793 um
What do you mean by this ground plane ?
Do you mean this 793um as width of ground of CPW ?

If your CPW is compared to MACLIN3 of Chapter 2 in the following,
http://cp.literature.agilent.com/litweb/pdf/ads2005a/pdf/ccdist.pdf
Sizes are W1=W3=793um, S1=S2=47um, W2=90um. These are correct ?

giorgilloz wrote on Mar 9th, 2009, 4:14am:
because i think the oscillations are due to the finite ground dimension of the line respect the pitch of the probe so RF signal can be reflected by the external boarder of the Ground plane.

I can't understand what you mean. Explain in detail.
Oscillation in the above is same as the following oscillation ?

giorgilloz wrote on Mar 4th, 2009, 3:09am:
the Insertion Loss is characterized by oscillation.


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giorgilloz
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Re: Measure CPW (47/90/47) with probe pitch 200 um
Reply #4 - Mar 10th, 2009, 3:13am
 
Ok in the picture you can see the dimensions of the CPW.

My question is if the oscillations in the measurement are due to the finite ground plane configuration of the CPW. I mean, in the case of the commercial standards used for the SOLT, the THRU has, usually, absorbers on the edges, to minimize the edge reflections and to simulate the ideal case of a CPW with infinite grounds, which is not my case. Moreover, I guess that the oscillation is enhanced around the 35 GHz frequency because the  pitch I am using is wider than the CPW geometry and I am not far from the edges, with possible enhancement of the higher frequencies reflections.

Which is your opinion ?

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Re: Measure CPW (47/90/47) with probe pitch 200 um
Reply #5 - Mar 10th, 2009, 4:02am
 
Answer my following questions.
pancho_hideboo wrote on Mar 4th, 2009, 4:34am:
Attached S21 is insertion loss of MEMS Switch ?

giorgilloz wrote on Mar 9th, 2009, 4:14am:
For the SOLT calibration, of course, i used a commercial SOLT kit calibration of Karl SUSS.
You seemed to use commercial calibration fixture for SOLT. But what calibration fixture did you use for TRL ? Did you make it by yourself ?

For both SOLT and TRL calibration fixtures you used, sizes are same as "ScreenHunter_01_Mar__10_10_04.gif" ?
Any taper geometry is used for relaxing sudden size change ?

giorgilloz wrote on Mar 10th, 2009, 3:13am:
My question is if the oscillations in the measurement are due to the finite ground plane configuration of the CPW.
What do you mean by the oscillations ?
If you mean radiation toward CPW groud plane edge direction due to resonance, it is arouid 27.5GHz of "Insertion_Loss.gif".

giorgilloz wrote on Mar 10th, 2009, 3:13am:
Moreover, I guess that the oscillation is enhanced around the 35 GHz frequency because the  pitch I am using is wider than the CPW geometry
and I am not far from the edges, with possible enhancement of the higher frequencies reflections.
If calibration is correctly done, such multiple reflection effects can be removed.

Using SOLT calibration, show me following two S21.
(1) S21 of THRU pattern of SOLT
(2) S21 of THRU pattern of TRL


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giorgilloz
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Re: Measure CPW (47/90/47) with probe pitch 200 um
Reply #6 - Mar 10th, 2009, 4:57am
 
Attached S21 is insertion loss of MEMS Switch ?

Yes

You seemed to use commercial calibration fixture for SOLT. But what calibration fixture did you use for TRL ? Did you make it by yourself ?

Yes i make it and tihis are the dimensions of the standards

TRL (47/90/47) εeff ~ 5.6

1. THRUE  Lenght=500 um
Delay Time=3.94 psec
 
2. Line1  3-16 GHz  Phisical Lenght=3385um+500um  DelayTime=30.64psec

( Lenght=3385um ---> 28.94° at 3 GHz --- 154.4° at 16 GHz )  
   
3. Line2  10-40 GHz    Phisical Lenght=1068 um+500um    
DelayTime=12.37psec

( Lenght=1068um ---> 30.44° at 10 GHz --- 121.73° at 40 GHz )
 
And like reflect standard i use a short standard    

For SOLT and TRL calibration fixtures you used, sizes are same as "ScreenHunter_01_Mar__10_10_04.gif" ?  

For the TRL calibration the size is the same.
For SOLT calibration i use the KIT Karl Suss CS 3 (150 to 250 pitch)
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Re: Measure CPW (47/90/47) with probe pitch 200 um
Reply #7 - Mar 10th, 2009, 5:11am
 
Answer my question in http://www.designers-guide.org/Forum/YaBB.pl?num=1236164999/5#5.

giorgilloz wrote on Mar 10th, 2009, 4:57am:
And like reflect standard i use a short standard.
Is it true short ? If not, how to estimate reflection coefficients ?

giorgilloz wrote on Mar 10th, 2009, 4:57am:
For SOLT calibration i use the KIT Karl Suss CS 3 (150 to 250 pitch)
What do you mean by 150 to 250 pitch ?
You mean you used different probe from TRL calibration ?

Anyway sizes of CPW in DUT are same as TRL fixtures not SOLT fixtures. Is this correct ?

Using SOLT calibration, show me following two S21.
(1) S21 of THRU pattern of SOLT
(2) S21 of THRU pattern of TRL

In actual CPW, ground plane width have to be finite never infinite.

Sorry the following might not be correct. You have to compare width of ground plane with effective wave length.

And this finite width of ground plane is less effective rather for high frequency as far as primary transmission mode.
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Re: Measure CPW (47/90/47) with probe pitch 200 um
Reply #8 - Mar 10th, 2009, 5:41am
 
Is it true short ? If not, how to estimate reflection coefficients ?

Yes is true short

giorgilloz wrote on Today at 4:57am:
For SOLT calibration i use the KIT Karl Suss CS 3 (150 to 250 pitch) What do you mean by 150 to 250 pitch ?
You mean you used different probe from TRL calibration ?

No i use the same probe for TRL calibration and SOLT calibration. 150 to 250 means that kit is valid for probe with pitch from 150 um to 250 um

Anyway sizes of CPW in DUT are same as TRL fixtures not SOLT fixtures. Is this correct ?

Yes it's correct

Using SOLT calibration, show me following two S21.
(1) S21 of THRU pattern of SOLT
(2) S21 of THRU pattern of TRL

I haven't this measure but after the several calibration i measured the thrue and i checked the overlap of S21 and S12 and of the S11 and S22 and i checked if the medium value of the S21 and S12 was 0 dB and if the S11 and S22 are under -20dB and all was Ok!
like in the case attached.





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Re: Measure CPW (47/90/47) with probe pitch 200 um
Reply #9 - Mar 10th, 2009, 5:52am
 
giorgilloz wrote on Mar 10th, 2009, 5:41am:
Yes is true short.
I can't believe. Its reflection coefficient is completely -1.0 over all frequency ? It can't be possible.

giorgilloz wrote on Mar 10th, 2009, 5:41am:
i checked if the medium value of the S21 and S12 was 0 dB
You mean averaged value as medium value ?

"R" is suspicious in your TRL calibration.

If you want to know reflections from finite groud plane edge and reflection from contact point between CPW and Probe, analyze IFFT of S11. If your Vector Network Analyzer have time domain analysis ability, you can do it easily.

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Re: Measure CPW (47/90/47) with probe pitch 200 um
Reply #10 - Mar 10th, 2009, 5:57am
 
In actual CPW, ground plane width have to be finite never infinite.

Sorry the following might not be correct. You have to compare width of ground plane with effective wave length.

And this finite width of ground plane is less effective rather for high frequency as far as primary transmission mode.


If i understand the width of the Ground plane at  28 GHz (resonace) is a Lamda/4 (wavelenght 4000 um) so this can be the problem?
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Re: Measure CPW (47/90/47) with probe pitch 200 um
Reply #11 - Mar 10th, 2009, 6:05am
 
giorgilloz wrote on Mar 10th, 2009, 5:57am:
If i understand the width of the Ground plane at  28 GHz (resonance) is a Lamda/4 (wavelenght 4000 um) so this can be the problem?
This resonance could cause radiation toward CPW ground plane edge direction.
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