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Vds- Matched V-2-I converter design (Read 6636 times)
Mayank
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Vds- Matched V-2-I converter design
Nov 18th, 2009, 7:06am
 
Hello Guys,
                 I am trying to design a vds-matched V-2-I converter.....Schematic is shown in the figure attached....

  My belief is that the opamp will ensure that nodes Vx & Vy sit at same voltage levels, so that the vds & vgs for both branches is same, hence ensuring properly matched current...Can someone give more insight into the ckt operation ??
  There are two loops that are formed, one is +ve feedback [T1-Vx-Opamp] and the other -ve feedback [T0-Vy-Opamp]...How do i ensure stability of this ckt ??
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HdrChopper
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Re: Vds- Matched V-2-I converter design
Reply #1 - Nov 18th, 2009, 6:19pm
 
Hi Mayank,

Generally speaking, the +ve feedback loop has to have less gain than the -ve one. In that way a stable operating point can be achieved for the ckt.
Both loops share a common branch: the opampīs output. so you can "break" the loop right there and analyze it as if it was a single loop (this is one of the scenarios that a multiloop ckt can be analyzed as a single loop one).

Hope this helps
Tosei
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Mayank
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Re: Vds- Matched V-2-I converter design
Reply #2 - Nov 18th, 2009, 8:44pm
 
Thanx Tosei,
           
          The input at Vin will change the current in 1st branch, changing the voltage at Vx...Opamp will try to settle Vy to the same voltage, & current in second branch will be decided by Vy/Rload  & NOT  VIN.....This action doesnt reflect a current source, instead a voltage source
      Am i mistaken somewhere ?
  In this case, Rload represents the incremental resistance of a CCO....I want a costant current into Rload....
   Are there some modifications i need to make ??

--mayank.
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Mayank
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Re: Vds- Matched V-2-I converter design
Reply #3 - Nov 19th, 2009, 3:01am
 
Hello all,
             I am simulating the above attached ckt....But something unexpected is happening....
  Opamp Open Loop response is stable with a PM of around 60 deg.  I am breaking the loop at the common point.
  Accroding to my calculations, -ve FB Loop should be stronger than +ve FB Loop...I am confused, esp by looking at the phase response...Is this way of measurement correct ??

Can't attach two files in one post :--- 1st image --> opamp Open Loop Response
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Mayank
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Re: Vds- Matched V-2-I converter design
Reply #4 - Nov 19th, 2009, 3:17am
 
Continued.....Refer to post above.
2nd. image :---> Current Mirror Response on breaking the loops at their common point

Could somebody guide me past this ?

thanx,
mayank
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Dipankar
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Re: Vds- Matched V-2-I converter design
Reply #5 - Nov 19th, 2009, 7:54am
 
Better use stability ("stb") analysis of spectre. Insert a vdc = 0 volt at the branch connecting OPMAP output to the PMOS gate. (bcz this is the branch which is common to both the loops).
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With Thanks and Regards,
Dipankar.
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Mayank
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Re: Vds- Matched V-2-I converter design
Reply #6 - Nov 19th, 2009, 10:18am
 
Hello,

@ dipankar : tried and tested all three methods for stability checks...

for everyone :
1. Middle-Brook Method
2. LC Filter for finding AC Loop Gain while maintaining DC Bias
3. Stb analysis of specte using iprobe

All three of them give same results....[Just remember in method 2 to put very high values of L ~ 1GH and C~ 1F]

Can i find analysis of a ckt of this kind anywhere ?? Am not able to stabilize it Sad

--mayank
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HdrChopper
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Re: Vds- Matched V-2-I converter design
Reply #7 - Nov 19th, 2009, 5:18pm
 
[quote author=Mayank_Singh link=1258556820/0#2 date=1258605890]Thanx Tosei,
           
          The input at Vin will change the current in 1st branch, changing the voltage at Vx...Opamp will try to settle Vy to the same voltage, & current in second branch will be decided by Vy/Rload  & NOT  VIN.....This action doesnt reflect a current source, instead a voltage source
      Am i mistaken somewhere ?
[quote]

Hi Mayank,

In my opinion you do have a voltage controlled current source, since Vx is controlled by Vin, and Iout is a function of Vy=Vx.
The observation is that the output current is not a linear function of the input voltage, but still it is controlled by it.
What it looks to me is that if you want a more linear control on the current you then need to size the controlled NMOS such that it operates in triode region....


Best Tosei
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HdrChopper
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Re: Vds- Matched V-2-I converter design
Reply #8 - Nov 19th, 2009, 5:23pm
 
Mayank wrote on Nov 19th, 2009, 10:18am:
Hello,

@ dipankar : tried and tested all three methods for stability checks...

for everyone :
1. Middle-Brook Method
2. LC Filter for finding AC Loop Gain while maintaining DC Bias
3. Stb analysis of specte using iprobe

All three of them give same results....[Just remember in method 2 to put very high values of L ~ 1GH and C~ 1F]

Can i find analysis of a ckt of this kind anywhere ?? Am not able to stabilize it Sad

--mayank



From you bode plots it looks the current sources add an additional 35 phase <censored> at UGF, achieving ~ 25 deg of PM.
What if you just try to make your opamp more wideband?....That way you PM will start improving and you will get the overall circuit more stable.

Best
Tosei
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Mayank
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Re: Vds- Matched V-2-I converter design
Reply #9 - Nov 19th, 2009, 10:56pm
 
Thanx Tosei,
                 Found the problem --> The ckt works fine if i replace the i/p Mos + src-Degeneration res with one single resistance whose value is in coordination with my math. High ro is causing a problem i suppose....
                 But if i try to increase the BW of the opamp, -->
1.   Error Amplifier is supposed to be of as low a BW as possible....Here, i am using the opamp as an error amplifier b/w vx & vy nodes....Increased BW would allow more noise to be pumped in...
2.   Increased Power Consumption...

Using input MOS in triode region is a nice suggestion, would try that for sure....But i still didnt understand how increasing opamp UGB would improve PM ?

--mayank
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Re: Vds- Matched V-2-I converter design
Reply #10 - Nov 28th, 2009, 9:48am
 
Hi MAyank,

My bad. I meant making the opamp more narrowband, so you get a heavier pole splitting and the phase contribution from the current mirror does not degrade that much your PM.

Best
Tosei
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Mayank
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Re: Vds- Matched V-2-I converter design
Reply #11 - Nov 28th, 2009, 10:45am
 
Hello Tosei,
                 Thanx for your answer....but i thought we need a narrow band  opamp for some other reasons which i stated in my post above....
 
   Could you pls emphasize more on what you meant by     Quote:
making the opamp more narrowband, so you get a heavier pole splitting and the phase contribution from the current mirror does not degrade that much your PM.


I didnt understand this statement quite well....

thanx,
mayank
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