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multistage amplifier (Read 5368 times)
aman gupta
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multistage amplifier
Oct 30th, 2012, 11:53pm
 
for the circuit shown , if i want to calculate gain of the second stage then do i need to consider the output resistance of first stage as the source resistance for the second stage ?
If yes then the output resistance of first stage will be
RO1 = re ll RE ll ro = .02513 KΩ
then gain equation will become AV2 = gm2(RC)(re2llRS) = 76.92
but in the solutions they have ignored the effect of RS and used  AV2 = gm2(RC)
please clarify this
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raja.cedt
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Re: multistage amplifier
Reply #1 - Oct 31st, 2012, 12:50am
 
When you want to find overall gain, you should include loading effect, but seems in the Question they have asked abut Vo2/V01, means if you add an battery of voltage Vo2 then what is the value of V01, so battery in // with resister is a battery.

When you write some thing, please make sure that your text will match with figure what you have posted, please don't introduce new terms...

Thanks,
Raj.
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buddypoor
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Re: multistage amplifier
Reply #2 - Oct 31st, 2012, 1:21am
 
Hi aman gupta,
I am not quite happy with raj`s answer because he speaks about a "battery" (?) of voltage Vo2 (why Vo2?). Therefore, I like to clarify.
The answer is straightforward:
You have a two-stage amplifier (common-collector and common base).
*Calculate the gain Vo1/Vin of the 1st stage considering the pretty low input resistance of the 2nd stage in parallel to Re.
* Calculate the gain of the 2nd stage Vo2/Vo1 without any internal source resistance.
* Multiply both gains resulting in Vo2/Vin
* With other words: Consider Vo1 as an IDEAL voltage source. Otherwise you would consider Re twice in your calculation.
* Explanation: This approach is allowed because of the SUBSTITUTION THEOREM, which unfortunately is not very well known (but, nevertheless, very often applied without knowing it).
This theorem is explained in "Desoer, Kuh: Basic Circuit Theory".


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aman gupta
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Re: multistage amplifier
Reply #3 - Nov 1st, 2012, 12:41am
 
but in the solutions they have ignored the effect of RS and used AV2 = gm2(RC)
i.e they ignored the effect of stage 1 on stage 2 to find Vo2/Vo1 but have considered the effect of stage 2 on stage 1 to find Vo1/Vi
please clarify this
one more thing
i am getting the correct answer using the small signal analysis.
But if we use the standard formula of voltage gain for common base then do we consider the output resistance of 1st stage as the internal resistance of voltage source for the 2nd stage i.e common base ?
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aman gupta
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Re: multistage amplifier
Reply #4 - Nov 1st, 2012, 4:54am
 
sorry
in the first post i did some mistake.  In that i wrote the formula for voltage gain of common base as Av = (gm/RS)(RcllRL)(re ll RE ll RS)
and for my circuit the second stage is common base for which RE is ∞ and no RL . So gain expression will become Av = (gm2/RS)(Rc)(re ll RS)
i forgot to divide by Rs. But still answer in the textbook for gain of second stage is 153.8 and the factor of 2 is coming because they ignored Rs.
This is a question from electronic circuits analysis & analysis by donald neamen
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buddypoor
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Re: multistage amplifier
Reply #5 - Nov 1st, 2012, 8:25am
 
Question: Is your problem solved now? (I am a bit confused about your last two postings).
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aman gupta
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Re: multistage amplifier
Reply #6 - Nov 1st, 2012, 10:03am
 
no it is not solved...........
i try to explain the question once again
what i want to say is in case of cascading if we are calculating the gain of a stage then we have to consider the effects of previous and the next stage.
Now i want to calculate the gain of the 2nd stage which is a common base configuration. So the voltage gain formula for common base amplifier with a non ideal voltage source at the input and a load resistance RL at the output i know is
Av = (gm/RS)(RcllRL)(re ll RE ll RS)
where gm is ICQ/VT
RS is the resistance of the voltage source
RE is the resistance connected between the emitter and ground (small signal model)
re = VT/IEQ

But when RS is 0 then gain expression is AV=gm(RC ll RL )

So in the given circuit the RO of the first stage should become the RS for the second stage

Now in the question they have asked to calculate the gain of both stages and the overall gain.
In the solutions they have calculated the gain of the 1st stage considering the input resistance of the 2nd stage as the load of 1st stage. This is fine.
RL for 2nd stage is infinite

Now to calculate the gain of 2nd stage they are taking RS = 0 and hence the gain formula for 2nd stage (common base) reduces to AV2 = gm2RC.    This is my doubt that why he can consider RS for 2nd stage to be 0
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Re: multistage amplifier
Reply #7 - Nov 2nd, 2012, 3:32am
 
aman gupta wrote on Nov 1st, 2012, 10:03am:
So in the given circuit the RO of the first stage should become the RS for the second stage


What means "should become"? You are not allowed to take this resistor into consideration twice.
Let me explain again:
The gain of the 1st stage is calculated assuming it would be a stand-alone stage with an external load (input impedance of the 2nd stage).
The corresponding output voltage of the 1st stage act as the input voltage for the 2nd stage (assuming it would be an IDEAL source, because you have considered the output impedance for the 1st stage already during the first calculation).
This approach is in full agreement with the Substitution Theorem which provides the theoretical basis.
This theorem in short: In an electrical network (linear or non-linear) you can replace each single node voltage or each single path current by an ideal voltage source resp. an ideal current source of the same value without influence on all other node voltages/path currents.  
OK? Further questions?
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aman gupta
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Re: multistage amplifier
Reply #8 - Nov 2nd, 2012, 4:29am
 
got it . thanks  :)
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