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SAR and Pipelining Architectures (Read 13674 times)
Mir
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SAR and Pipelining Architectures
Aug 02nd, 2014, 1:10pm
 
I need to finalize whether i should go for SAR or Pipelining ADC design....

can u suggest me ....

Specifications required..

Resolution bit:- 14
Sampling rate:- 1Msps
Mux:- 4:1..

with xplaination plz
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carlgrace
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Re: SAR and Pipelining Architectures
Reply #1 - Aug 4th, 2014, 9:59am
 
14 bit is pushing it for a pipelined ADC unless you want to calibrate or you don't really need 14-bit ENOB and your application is more SNDR oriented.  

That said, getting a 14-bit SAR to work well above 1 MS/s is non-trivial to say the least, but it depends on your process.

You really need to give more information for to make an informed choice.  What process are you using?  What are the key specs?  What is the signal bandwidth?  etc etc etc
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loose-electron
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Re: SAR and Pipelining Architectures
Reply #2 - Aug 4th, 2014, 2:27pm
 
At that rate and resolution you should probably consider oversampling architecture Delta Sigma methods.

Agreed more info is needed however to give good advice.
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Re: SAR and Pipelining Architectures
Reply #3 - Aug 4th, 2014, 6:29pm
 
Hi,


check out this work.

Kapusta, R. ; Analog Devices, Inc, et. Al., "A 14b 80 MS/s SAR ADC With 73.6 dB SNDR in 65 nm CMOS" JSSC vol. 48, no.12.

It seems that if you have a fast enough process, a SAR is doable. Also, if the design is doable using a SAR, then go with a SAR, but if the speed requirement can't be met, then pipeline. Perhaps the experts could weigh in on the pros and cons of pipeline versus SAR as I'm also very interested. My understanding:

FOR SAR
1) Only 1 linear node.
2) Lower power due to no high gain amplifiers.
3) More scalable and benefits more from technology scaling.
4) Easier to do with just one low-voltage supply.

FOR Pipelined
1) Faster.
2) In SAR, internal clock rate is N times higher than pipelined ADC.

Anybody care to add to that?


cheers,
Aaron
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Mir
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Re: SAR and Pipelining Architectures
Reply #4 - Aug 5th, 2014, 1:42am
 
Other specifications are:

Input voltage +/- 10V
Mux 4:1
INL +/- 2 LSB
DNL +/- 1LSB
SNR 70 dB


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Re: SAR and Pipelining Architectures
Reply #5 - Aug 5th, 2014, 3:55am
 
Hi,


Input voltage +/- 10V.

Is that a typo? What process are you using? What do you mean by 4:1 MUX?


Aaron
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Mir
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Re: SAR and Pipelining Architectures
Reply #6 - Aug 5th, 2014, 8:19am
 
THE MUX WILL BE USED AT THE INPUT....MORE THAN 2 INPUTS
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loose-electron
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Re: SAR and Pipelining Architectures
Reply #7 - Aug 5th, 2014, 10:16am
 
aaron_do wrote on Aug 5th, 2014, 3:55am:
Hi,


Input voltage +/- 10V.

Is that a typo? What process are you using? What do you mean by 4:1 MUX?


Aaron



20V? Voltage division at the input with R-poly will get that done.

Foundry process is the big question here - if it is submicron CMOS at that sample rate I would go Sigma-Delta,

If it is old 1.2u CMOS SAR might be the path to take.

Very slow sampling rate so I do not see a need to do a pipeline.

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carlgrace
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Re: SAR and Pipelining Architectures
Reply #8 - Aug 5th, 2014, 5:43pm
 
loose-electron wrote on Aug 5th, 2014, 10:16am:
aaron_do wrote on Aug 5th, 2014, 3:55am:
Hi,


Input voltage +/- 10V.

Is that a typo? What process are you using? What do you mean by 4:1 MUX?


Aaron



20V? Voltage division at the input with R-poly will get that done.

Foundry process is the big question here - if it is submicron CMOS at that sample rate I would go Sigma-Delta,

If it is old 1.2u CMOS SAR might be the path to take.

Very slow sampling rate so I do not see a need to do a pipeline.



Since the OP is using a 4-1 MUX in the front of the ADC, the real sampling rate is 4 MS/s.  

I've got to disagree with loose-electron a bit here in that I think a 14-bit SAR at 4 MS/s is a very challenging design, especially in an old process.  A pipeline at 4 MS/s would be pretty easy.

Also, interfacing a sigma-delta to a multiplexed input can be challenging depending on the characteristics of your signal source and what you're trying to achieve.  So beware.

Your specs are in kind of a weird spot... not obvious which way to go since several approaches could work here.
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Mir
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Re: SAR and Pipelining Architectures
Reply #9 - Aug 6th, 2014, 1:11am
 
i am really thankful for ua sugestions!!

i have to use AMS 180 nm Tech.

and it has to be designed for data acquisition system
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Re: SAR and Pipelining Architectures
Reply #10 - Aug 6th, 2014, 11:20am
 
If it were me doing the design I would probably go with the pipeline.  Since your SNR requirement is somewhat challenging, and because 4 MS/s is a piece of cake in 180nm, I would consider oversampling.  If you run the converter at 16 MS/s, say, and take 4 samples of each input and average them, you'll improve your SNR by 6 dB.  Then you won't have to worry as much about kT/C and OTA noise.

I actually did just this is an instrumentation SOC design a few years ago, accept it was in 65nm and much faster.

Please note that my advice is probably biased because I've designed a lot of Pipelined ADCs so I'm much more familiar with their capabilities than other types of ADCs.

Have fun designing!
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loose-electron
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Re: SAR and Pipelining Architectures
Reply #11 - Aug 6th, 2014, 12:40pm
 
OK, so 0.18, 14 bit, 4MHz sampling.

I would go through the literature and look at sigma delta, pipelines and SAR methods.

If power is a big issue the pipeline will eat a lot of power, sigma delta not as much.

Research papers next, If I may suggest.
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Re: SAR and Pipelining Architectures
Reply #12 - Aug 6th, 2014, 1:59pm
 
A delta-sigma won't be easy because there are multiple inputs. You will have to reset it each time to flush the buffers and integrators, which makes it an incremental where you have to oversample it quite a bit more to get the same resolution... I think a 3rd order will require 4*OSR samples... see Quiquempoix, "A Low Power 22-bit Incremental ADC," JSSC, July 2006. You might be able to pull it off with a high order one.

I just went through this on a bid for a 32 input 18-bit ADC. I'm still not sure how/if I'm going to make that ADC happen but was thinking of a pipelined SAR with the cap mismatch calibrated out. I think that will work well for you too. Look at some of the newer pipelined SAR papers to see how they are done. They can be pretty power efficient.



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Re: SAR and Pipelining Architectures
Reply #13 - Aug 6th, 2014, 2:17pm
 
I think the confusion is the OP hasn't ever said what the real specs are.  What is important?

Power?  Go with a SAR or pipelined-SAR like Rob suggests.

Time?  Go with a Pipelined ADC.  Maybe a 3.5-bit first stage and then 1.5-bit stages after that.  Since you're going slow, you don't have to worry about cap size and power.  Use the 3.3 V devices, make big, double-cascode op amps and don't worry too much.

OP doesn't seem to be an expert so going for something simple is the way to go.
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loose-electron
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Re: SAR and Pipelining Architectures
Reply #14 - Aug 7th, 2014, 7:49pm
 
Good point on the sigma delta and the front end sampling. Agreed that may be an issue.
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