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https://designers-guide.org/forum/YaBB.pl Modeling >> Behavioral Models >> wrong noisefigure of current mixer in veriloga https://designers-guide.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1166542399 Message started by Jochen on Dec 19th, 2006, 7:33am |
Title: wrong noisefigure of current mixer in veriloga Post by Jochen on Dec 19th, 2006, 7:33am Hello all, I am trying to build a model of a double-balanced passive current mixer including IIP2 and Noise Figure. The implementation of the IIP2 worked but at noise simulations (qpnoise and pnoise) i got a NF 3db higher than set. The source code and setup is posted below. When I choose maxclockorder higher than 2 I get 3.47db too much. With pss/pnoise and referencesideband=-1 I achieve completely wrong results of about 270db noise figure. With isource as input I get the correct pnoise_gain but no noise figure is calculated. As output I used a port (also tried vdc) at the testif_mix pin in order to measure only lo*rf=if, so IP2 cannot be responsible for the wrong results. I am not sure if my noise simulation setup is correct, especially for current mixers. Do you have any idea what is wrong and how I can fix it? Any help apreciated! Thank you very much, Jochen p.s.: Forgot to mention that the 3 db remain even if I comment out the line with the noise source. With no additional (mixer) noise simulation should give 0db noise figure, I believe. my simulation setup, Code:
my mixer veriloga-model, Code:
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Title: Re: wrong noisefigure of current mixer in veriloga Post by Jochen on Jan 12th, 2007, 6:04am Meanwhile I have conducted some further considerations of my mixer: When I choose maximum clock order of qpnoise very high (about 30) my noise figure deviation is about +3.9 db, exactly the conversion loss of the T/2-mixer! Is it correct to select a maximum clock order higher than the harmonics setting in qpss? I believe to have read that one should increase the max-clock-order till the noise result is not changed any more? Is that correct? A different approach was to add an output noise-current source [with Nout = G^2 *4kT/R * (noisefactor-1)]: With that setting I also got a NoiseFigure 3.9db too high (with DirectPlot->MainForm->Qpnoise). But when I calculated the Noise Figure myself with data from the Results->Print->NoiseSummary I achieved the correct noise figure! [Maths: 10*log(TotalOutputNoise/Src_Port-OutputNoise)] I believe that Cadence considers the conversion loss of mixers through the reference-sideband-setting? Why does it then change the NoiseFigure result? I am considering if the attenuation through the mixer (conversion loss) increases the noise figure by the same amount. Passive filters would. Could that be? Or is it a problem of the software? Btw. can anybody explain me how the pnoise-value (qpnoise, transfer function) is calculated, please? I am grateful for any comments! Thanks in advance, Jochen |
Title: Re: wrong noisefigure of current mixer in veriloga Post by Jochen on Feb 6th, 2007, 2:04am Now i have learnt that these results are correct! A noiseless mixer gives 3db SSB-NF and the higher the max. clock order setting is the more noise is folded into the IF-band so >3db for m.c.o. > 1 is correct! It has nothing to do with the conversion gain of the mixer! Another question: What values does the Print->NoiseSummary give? Peak- or RMS-V^2 ?? My simulated figures are not V2out/Hz = V2port*Gain2 =4kTR *Gain2 (the only noisy device is the port @input) I only get half the value! Is it an voltage divider beween Rport and Rin? Or is it because of an peak-rms conversion? But 4kTR is already a rms-value. :-/ Thanks for your help! |
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