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https://designers-guide.org/forum/YaBB.pl Modeling >> Semiconductor Devices >> Model for HJFET NE3514S02 transistor!! https://designers-guide.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1273409182 Message started by RF_Designer on May 9th, 2010, 5:46am |
Title: Model for HJFET NE3514S02 transistor!! Post by RF_Designer on May 9th, 2010, 5:46am Hello all, I 'm looking for HJFET NE3514S02 transistor model ! Is there a way for that ? or in which way can we make it ? Thank you in advance, Nass |
Title: Re: Model for HJFET NE3514S02 transistor!! Post by pancho_hideboo on May 9th, 2010, 8:39am http://www2.renesas.com/microwave/en/parameter/low_gaashj_dp.html |
Title: Re: Model for HJFET NE3514S02 transistor!! Post by RF_Designer on Jun 16th, 2010, 1:27am Thank you, I know the site and i had used the given model but it did not work in ADS.. Could you try if you have a time ?? Thank you in advance, M |
Title: Re: Model for HJFET NE3514S02 transistor!! Post by Geoffrey_Coram on Jun 16th, 2010, 6:00am It works for me ... what problem are you having? Does ADS give you an error? Do you not believe the answer? |
Title: Re: Model for HJFET NE3514S02 transistor!! Post by RF_Designer on Jun 17th, 2010, 1:57am Oh, Have your tried to create a component and then making a DC Bias in dorser to display the I-V characteristic curve?? Cause when you use the netlist in ADS is works but i mean after.... In attached the obtained model... You can remark there is no ports...!!! Pls, Could you check it if you have time...?? |
Title: Re: Model for HJFET NE3514S02 transistor!! Post by pancho_hideboo on Jun 17th, 2010, 2:04am As I expected, simply you don't understand usage of netlist in ADS. RF_Designer wrote on Jun 17th, 2010, 1:57am:
There are two methods. One is following. This is very simple and no symbol is required. http://www.designers-guide.org/Forum/YaBB.pl?num=1266403928/17#17 http://www.designers-guide.org/Forum/YaBB.pl?num=1240322183/23#23 Second method. Place port in your schematic and create symbol. But there is no model definition component in your schematic. There is a Design Kit including this FET. You had better use it since you don't understand ADS usage well. http://www2.renesas.com/microwave/ads/nec_activelibraryv4.0.zip |
Title: Re: Model for HJFET NE3514S02 transistor!! Post by RF_Designer on Jun 18th, 2010, 2:50am How i don't understand usage of Agilent ADS ?? That attached figure is wrong ?? I do not think so..!! cause i have tried with the other component that active bias circuit it works but with this transistor does not work. Could you check it pls ? (i.e , the second method) I have never used Netlist include, and i do know if it gives the same results!!! how can we use this netlist include ? is there a method ? For the nec_activelibraryv4.0.zip, yes i know it and i used it in ADs but if you compare the s-parameters with the S2P you will find a big difference, i.e, the given paramters do not fit with the S2P file so that why i want to use the given spice model to ADS. Pls, Could you give more information... I appreciate your help. |
Title: Re: Model for HJFET NE3514S02 transistor!! Post by pancho_hideboo on Jun 18th, 2010, 6:40am RF_Designer wrote on Jun 18th, 2010, 2:50am:
You can't understand what are necessary for FET component at all. (1) There is no meaningful Net Label for FET symbol. (2) FET symbol is "MOSFET_NMOS" in your schematic. This is wrong. (3) Model refered by "MOSFET_NMOS" is unknown "x990x9". (4) Even if "x990x9" is used, there is no model definition component for "x990x9" (5) All values of L and C are unitless and factorless. (6) If you want to use this as subcircuit, place port and create symbol. You have to use followings if you want to make schematic. http://edocs.soco.agilent.com/display/ads2009/EE+HEMT1+%28EEsof+Scalable+Nonlinear+HEMT%29 http://edocs.soco.agilent.com/display/ads2009/EE+HEMT1+Model+%28EEsof+Scalable+Nonlinear+HEMT+Model%29 RF_Designer wrote on Jun 18th, 2010, 2:50am:
Read documents of Agilent ADS surely. http://edocs.soco.agilent.com/display/ads2009/Importing+a+Netlist+File You can't use "Netlist Import" for ADS's syntax netlist. "Netlist Import" function is valid for netlists of the following. Spice2G Spice3 PSpice HSpice Spectre RF_Designer wrote on Jun 18th, 2010, 2:50am:
The attached figure is a method where subcircuit schematic is not required. "NE3514S02_v127.ads" Quote:
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Title: Re: Model for HJFET NE3514S02 transistor!! Post by RF_Designer on Jun 18th, 2010, 10:49am Thank you pancho_hideboo, 1. pls, how you have gotten NE3514S02_v127.ads ? In the Nec site they provide just spice file which is the same as you provide but without In the beginning : simulator lang=ads In the end : NE3514S02_v127:Q1 d g s I don't how you have got it ? 2. The Nec technologies provides SPICE parameters. Before i thought that is the same to use Net list Import. Thank you for the remark. Really, you are great... I'm learning from your knowledge. |
Title: Re: Model for HJFET NE3514S02 transistor!! Post by pancho_hideboo on Jun 18th, 2010, 10:55am RF_Designer wrote on Jun 18th, 2010, 10:49am:
Nonlinear models for "Ansoft Designer" and BJT are SPICE Syntax Netlist. But others are not SPICE Syntax Netlist. Agilent ADSsim can read Agilent ADSsim's Syntax Netlist and Cadence Spectre's Syntax Netlist directly. RF_Designer wrote on Jun 18th, 2010, 10:49am:
But "simulator lang=ads" is not mandatory. If you create symbol having three ports, D, G and S whose content is empty, you don't have to append "NE3514S02_v127:Q1 d g s". Again see http://edocs.soco.agilent.com/display/ads2009/Importing+a+Netlist+File |
Title: Re: Model for HJFET NE3514S02 transistor!! Post by pancho_hideboo on Jun 19th, 2010, 4:32am Red Curves : S-parameter calculated from "NE3514S02_v127.ads(EE_HEMT1_Model ; EEsof Scalable Nonlinear HEMT Model)" Blue Curves : "NE3514S02v2_8-26_2_5.s2p(24. May 2006, VDS=2V, ID=5mA)" |
Title: Re: Model for HJFET NE3514S02 transistor!! Post by pancho_hideboo on Jun 19th, 2010, 4:34am Red Curves : S-parameter calculated from "NE3514S02_v127.ads(EE_HEMT1_Model ; EEsof Scalable Nonlinear HEMT Model)" Blue Curves : "NE3514S02v2_8-26_2_5.s2p(24. May 2006, VDS=2V, ID=20mA)" RF_Designer wrote on Jun 18th, 2010, 2:50am:
Try to change Vds, Idrain or Analysis temperature slightly in simulation of Nonlinear model. Generally I believe S-parameter model not Nonlinear model since former is a raw data without approximation due to fitting. |
Title: Re: Model for HJFET NE3514S02 transistor!! Post by RF_Designer on Jun 20th, 2010, 6:44am Thank you for the detailed explanation and sorry if i have taken up your time. As you can see in the curve that you have done, when the frequency increase, the difference is more important espicially when you calculate the Roller fact for both methods. The same remark if you have used nec_activelibraryv4.0.zip... Pls, how you have known the expression that you have added of the last line in the NE3514S02_v127.ads ? is always true for another component provided by manufacturer ? What about BER? Do you have a good documents? i do know till know how can i proceed since i have just to work on RF receiver...!!! As you are familiar in that design, do you agree that in the RF receiver is important to simulate BER ? Thank you in advance, N |
Title: Re: Model for HJFET NE3514S02 transistor!! Post by pancho_hideboo on Jun 20th, 2010, 7:04am pancho_hideboo wrote on Jun 18th, 2010, 10:55am:
http://edocs.soco.agilent.com/display/ads2009/About+HSPICE+Compatibility RF_Designer wrote on Jun 20th, 2010, 6:44am:
It seems you also don't understand structure of Design Kits of Agilent ADS. RF_Designer wrote on Jun 20th, 2010, 6:44am:
For example, S12 is very suspicious for high frequency. Again I believe S-parameter model not Nonlinear model since former is a raw data without approximation due to fitting. Again surely see http://www.designers-guide.org/Forum/YaBB.pl?num=1273408947 RF_Designer wrote on Jun 20th, 2010, 6:44am:
Read documents of Agilent ADS. RF_Designer wrote on Jun 20th, 2010, 6:44am:
RF_Designer wrote on Jun 20th, 2010, 6:44am:
Create another new thread for your new questions with detailed decription and correct sentences using correct terminologies but without unfamiliar abbreviations such as "sof" and "pb". |
Title: Re: Model for HJFET NE3514S02 transistor!! Post by RF_Designer on Jun 22nd, 2010, 2:01am I meant: 1. Do you have a good documentation on BER ? 2. For RF receiver, do you agree that it is important to have a BER parameter? how can we get it ? is it possible to get from simulation? Also, For the transistor part, is it important to have the layout of the transistor NE3514S02 or just S2P file is sufficient in order to use a co-simulation ? Thank you in advance, |
Title: Re: Model for HJFET NE3514S02 transistor!! Post by pancho_hideboo on Jun 22nd, 2010, 2:34am RF_Designer wrote on Jun 22nd, 2010, 2:01am:
Create another new thread for your new questions with detailed decription and correct sentences using correct terminologies but without unfamiliar abbreviations such as "sof" and "pb". RF_Designer wrote on Jun 22nd, 2010, 2:01am:
Again surely read followings. http://www.designers-guide.org/Forum/YaBB.pl?num=1273408947/1#1 http://www.designers-guide.org/Forum/YaBB.pl?num=1273408947/4#4 Answer following questions. pancho_hideboo wrote on May 9th, 2010, 6:02am:
pancho_hideboo wrote on Jun 12th, 2010, 6:45am:
pancho_hideboo wrote on Jun 12th, 2010, 6:45am:
Your problem is simply you can't reflect actual measurement conditions in simulation. I think both S-parameter model and Nonlinear model of NE3514S02 are for on-wafer DUT not for packaged device data. And this HJFET can be provided as bare-chip. Which do you use, bare-chip or packaged-device ? If you use bare-chip, how do you mount this device on printed circuit board ? (1) Normal mount with wire bonding. (2) Flip mount with bumps Artwork patterns of PCB(Printed Circuit Board) are very important in high frequency. If you use packaged device, you have to include package model and foot print in simulation in addition to Artwork patterns of PCB. Even if you use bare-chip as normal mount with wire bonding, you have to include wire model in simulation. http://www.designers-guide.org/Forum/YaBB.pl?num=1206929207/3#3 Such things are very very very very common in RF engineering. It seems you are very beginner in RF engineering world. |
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