The Designer's Guide Community Forum
https://designers-guide.org/forum/YaBB.pl Design >> Analog Design >> current distribution https://designers-guide.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1276492562 Message started by newic on Jun 13th, 2010, 10:16pm |
Title: current distribution Post by newic on Jun 13th, 2010, 10:16pm I have a 20uA Iref as a global current to distribute to local current mirrors. The end point of some circuits need 1m and 2mA current (sub circuit current mirror). 1.) Is it a common practice to distribute small current. (large current might cause IR drop vs small current might be suspectible to interference) 2.) Since the multiplication is about 100 times, should I make the sub circuit current mirror x100 bigger? It will be very huge? comment are welcome :) although they are simple question ::) |
Title: Re: current distribution Post by raja.cedt on Jun 14th, 2010, 1:34am hi, the main problem with big multiplication number is output current noise, so if you need very clean noise don't do this. If you are not so interested in output current noise then go ahead One suggestion: if you are doing layout also use 2 fingers and 50 multiplication factor to mitigate LOD effect. Thanks, Rajasekhar. |
Title: Re: current distribution Post by carlgrace on Jun 15th, 2010, 3:14pm Another thing to watch out for is how long it takes your circuit to recover from power down. If you have a really big multiplication factor, then the output current mirror will be very big, and high capacitance. It may take too long for it to recover from a power-down state. Have you thought about increasing the reference current to 100uA or so? It is still quite small and shouldn't give you any IR issues. Carl |
Title: Re: current distribution Post by raja.cedt on Jun 15th, 2010, 9:47pm hi, by the way where you are using this...for example if you are using for any current steering DAC then it's big issue as carlgrace pointed out (mainly for switching)..but there if you can use higher overdrive some how you can escape Thanks, Rajasekhar. |
Title: Re: current distribution Post by newic on Jun 15th, 2010, 10:12pm Ok. it is reasonable to change to 100uA Iref. The Iref is generated from Bandgap core circuit which is independent to voltage and temperature. The BG core is only drawn 20uA. If the core increases to 100uA. it will become sensitive to voltage variation for a given transistor size. It is due to the decrease of gm in the BG loop. Is it a good idea that to remain the BG core to 20uA and multiply it to 100uA and distribute it as global Iref? or make BG core and Iref = 100uA? |
Title: Re: current distribution Post by Mayank on Jun 16th, 2010, 2:45am Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Didnt understand this. Pls. explain wot you mean by the above statement. Sensitive to which voltage variation -- Power Supply ?? |
Title: Re: current distribution Post by newic on Jun 16th, 2010, 3:27am sensitive to power supply variation if BG core current increase. |
Title: Re: current distribution Post by Mayank on Jun 16th, 2010, 3:45am Quote:
I dont think that's gonna be a problem. Design your opamp loop in such a way that you get desired Power-Supply Rejection at your concerned frequency. (eg, increasing opamp gain) Since the pmos gm alongwith Opamp Gain A forms a closed loop during BGR operation, I guess increasing GM would make the Power Supply rejection better becuase loop gain is increased. Another way to look at it is that the Resistive division from vdd to vout, is divided by (1+A*gm*rout). Higher the gm, lesser the perturbation at output node due to vdd noise. Wot say ?? -- Mayank |
Title: Re: current distribution Post by subgold on Jun 16th, 2010, 7:12am Mayank wrote on Jun 16th, 2010, 3:45am:
i disagree. since the bg is generating a reference current, you have to look the power supply sensitivity of the output current, not the voltage. considering any small-signal variation at the opamp output as an noise source of the PMOS transistor, increasing gm actually enlarge the current noise. if you want to have a high loop gain, it can only be done by by enhancing the opamp gain. furthermore, even for the voltage PSRR, having larger gm without increasing the transistor size might also not help, because you reduce the voltage headroom, thus get a smaller rout. in general, i think a mirror ratio of 5 is acceptable, unless you need a very good matching. |
Title: Re: current distribution Post by Mayank on Jun 16th, 2010, 9:01pm Quote:
Quote:
Noise current increases with increasing gm, but that's not what he was talking abt. Quote:
-- Mayank. |
Title: Re: current distribution Post by newic on Jun 19th, 2010, 9:14pm Is the PSRR poorer if pmos-nmos current mirror is used instead of opamp. I used current mirror type to form the gain loop due to simplicity. I think the PSRR is poorer than opamp type. |
Title: Re: current distribution Post by Mayank on Jun 20th, 2010, 10:56am Quote:
can't say. In pmos-nmos current mirror, resistance from vdd to output node is increased as it's a cascode config. This will inherently improve PSR. Opamp Loop is an active loop Rejection. Do a PSR analysis on your circuit & find out. |
Title: Re: current distribution Post by tzg6sa on Jun 21st, 2010, 1:07am raja.cedt wrote on Jun 14th, 2010, 1:34am:
Please correct me if I am wrong, but with higher multiplication ratio the SNR will be better, because the noise power is proportional to the transconductance of the output device, while the signal power is proportional to the square of the transconductance. (assumed that the current noise is of interest) |
Title: Re: current distribution Post by Mayank on Jun 21st, 2010, 1:18am Quote:
By signal , i assume you mean the small signal input (ac input ) to the block. small signal power is dependent on Transconductance of Input Devices, not the current mirrors. [because current mirrors/sources/sinks do not lie in signal path] WHILE noise current injection we are talking about here is dependent on square root of Transconductance of Current Mirrors. Hence, Input device gm should be large, not the current mirrors. Hence, Raja stands correct. |
The Designer's Guide Community Forum » Powered by YaBB 2.2.2! YaBB © 2000-2008. All Rights Reserved. |