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Simulators >> RF Simulators >> PSS with TLINE in circuit
https://designers-guide.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1282792418

Message started by purplewolf on Aug 25^th, 2010, 8:13pm

Title: PSS with TLINE in circuit
Post by purplewolf on Aug 25^th, 2010, 8:13pm

My Power Amplifier citcuit has a TLine from analoglib and I want to run PSS to calculate PAE,Pout ,comrepssion..but pss does not runs with tlines..is there any alternative accurate way to do it..

Title: Re: PSS with TLINE in circuit
Post by pancho_hideboo on Aug 26^th, 2010, 6:09am

purplewolf wrote on Aug 25^th, 2010, 8:13pm:

My Power Amplifier citcuit has a TLine from analoglib
and I want to run PSS to calculate PAE,Pout ,comrepssion..
but pss does not runs with tlines..
is there any alternative accurate way to do it..

I don't know what you mean by "analoglib/TLine" and also I don't know what simulator you use.

I assume "analogLib/tline" on Cadence DFII.

We can use "analogLib/tline" of Cadence in PSS analysis of Agilent ADSsim and GoldenGate without any problem.
http://edocs.soco.agilent.com/display/ads2009/tline

What simulator engine you use is Cadence Spectre ?
Still can't we use "analogLib/tline" in PSS analysis of Cadence Spectre ?
Did you try HB engine of Cadence Spectre with tstab=0 ?
If it is not helpful, use "analogLib/mtline" instead of "analogLib/tline", although I have not used them.
http://www.designers-guide.org/Forum/YaBB.pl?num=1169142108

The followings are general notes for you.

- Always describe correct tool's name and vendor's name which you use as tool or simulator.
- Don't do multiple posts which are same content.
- Don't request source code or behavioral model without any efforts.
- There are many simulators which have analyses called as PSS, PAC and Pnoise.
- Describe in detail with using correct terminologies.
- Warnigns are different from Errors.
- ADS is not name of simulator.
- There is no tool which name is Cadence.
- Don't use Direct Plot of Cadence ADE blindly without knowing definition.
- All gains in Direct Plot of Cadence ADE are "right", "true" and "practical" voltage gain.
- Don't mix up Simulation with Post Processing. They are completely different phase.
- MATLAB are different from Simulink.
- Learn measurements using actual instruments. Not "EDA Tool Play

Title: Re: PSS with TLINE in circuit
Post by purplewolf on Aug 30^th, 2010, 8:25am

it doesnt work with tstab = 0 with both HBengines in Cadence Spectre..
ill go for Golden gate
thanx!!!

Title: Re: PSS with TLINE in circuit
Post by pancho_hideboo on Aug 30^th, 2010, 8:42am

purplewolf wrote on Aug 30^th, 2010, 8:25am:

it doesnt work with tstab = 0 with both HBengines in Cadence Spectre..

Did you try to use "analogLib/mtline" instead of "analogLib/tline" ?

purplewolf wrote on Aug 30^th, 2010, 8:25am:

ill go for Golden gate

If you use Agilent GoldenGate, you can use more good line model than "analogLib/tline" or "analogLib/mtline".
See http://www.designers-guide.org/Forum/YaBB.pl?num=1272383469

If you use Agilent GoldenGate, use Agilent GoldenGate version 4.4.X.
See http://www.designers-guide.org/Forum/YaBB.pl?num=1268404959/7#7

Title: Re: PSS with TLINE in circuit
Post by purplewolf on Aug 30^th, 2010, 2:35pm

pancho_hideboo wrote on Aug 30^th, 2010, 8:42am:

purplewolf wrote on Aug 30^th, 2010, 8:25am:

it doesnt work with tstab = 0 with both HBengines in Cadence Spectre..

Did you try to use "analogLib/mtline" instead of "analogLib/tline" ?

I used tline... i have to figure out how to use mtline ...

purplewolf wrote on Aug 30^th, 2010, 8:25am:

ill go for Golden gate

Title: Re: PSS with TLINE in circuit
Post by Tawna Wilsey on Sep 8^th, 2010, 11:28pm

Hi Purple Wolf,

Do not use tline from analogLib. Use mtline instead. There is an application note on how to use mtline on Cadence Online Support: support.cadence.com (I wrote the appNote a couple of years ago).

With mtline, I recommend the field solver type of input option. My second preference would be to use the RLGC type of input option. I do not recommend using the tline option (It's older technology, kept around for legacy reasons.) The appNote goes into detail about each of the different options.

For example: If you want to include dielectric loss in your transmission line, I recommend using the Field Solver with the sublossline transmission line type and the wideband model type.

You should also use the harmonic balance engine in Spectre. Additionally, I strongly recommend using the latest MMSIM 7.2 ISR.

In more recent versions of IC (5.1.41 USR6, 6.1.4), you will also have a cross sectional viewer, which makes using the Field solver option very easy to use.

Again, let me emphasize...do not use tline. The parameters used are from older modeling technology and have inherent limitations.

Finally, if you are having any issues with convergence or accuracy, I strongly recommend contacting Cadence Customer Support. Customers have been using mtline with spectreRF for many years without problems.

Best regards,

Tawna Wilsey
Cadence Design Systems
tawna@cadence.com

Title: Re: PSS with TLINE in circuit
Post by purplewolf on Sep 9^th, 2010, 2:58am

ok thanks...
ive got the app note..