The Designer's Guide Community Forum

The Designer's Guide Community Forum
https://designers-guide.org/forum/YaBB.pl
Design >> RF Design >> VCO Phase noise Discrepancy in pnoise and transient noise
https://designers-guide.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1714177537

Message started by Hassan on Apr 26^th, 2024, 5:25pm

Title: VCO Phase noise Discrepancy in pnoise and transient noise
Post by Hassan on Apr 26^th, 2024, 5:25pm

Hello Everyone,
I am using the code below for VCO, and it is pretty standard and straightforward. I want to make sure that the noise transfer function from control voltage to phase noise is correct, as I am going to use it in my PLL. Now, when I put a purely thermal noise using a resistor on the control voltage, the output phase noise slope is -40dB/dec using PSS and Pnoise!!!! Just to clarify, I do not want to model VCO PN itself but I wanna make sure that the transfer function of noise from its control voltage to output is correct.
I would appreciate any comment if you see it as helping. I am attaching both schematic and simulation results below.

module vco_va(vin, voutp, voutn);
input vin;
output voutp , voutn;
electrical vin, voutp, voutn;
parameter real amp = 0.5;
parameter real center_freq = 20G;
parameter real vco_gain = 1G;
parameter integer steps_per_period = 32;
parameter real DC_val = 1;

real phase;
real inst_freq ;

analog begin

inst_freq = center_freq + vco_gain * (V(vin)-1.25);

phase = idtmod(inst_freq, 0,1);

$bound_step (1.0 / (steps_per_period*inst_freq));

V(voutp) <+ amp * sin (2*`M_PI*phase) + DC_val;
V(voutn) <+ -1*amp * sin (2*`M_PI*phase) + DC_val;
end
endmodule

Title: Re: VCO Phase noise Discrepancy in pnoise and transient noise
Post by smlogan on May 27^th, 2024, 6:17pm

Dear Hassan,

In case you have not determined the root cause of your observed -40 dB/decade phase noise characteristic, I believe the issue is you are applying frequency noise - not phase noise - by including the noisy 1K resistor in series with the control voltage input. In essence, the control voltage input modulates frequency. Hence, the slope of a flat noise source applied to the control voltage of the VCO will result in -40 dB/decade phase noise slope - not -20 dB/decade.

Shawn

Title: Re: VCO Phase noise Discrepancy in pnoise and transient noise
Post by Hassan on Jun 3^rd, 2024, 1:16pm

Hello Shawn,

Thanks for your answer. I am still looking for an answer to this question. As far as I know, when I have white noise, the integral of it will have a spectrum with a slope of -20dBc/dec since its spectrum is simply multiplied by 1/s^2. I verified this using transient noise simulation, showing a -20dBc/dec slope. Please take a look at image below from "Phase Noise and Jitter in CMOS Ring Oscillators" paper.