The Designer's Guide Community Forum

The Designer's Guide Community Forum
https://designers-guide.org/forum/YaBB.pl
Simulators >> RF Simulators >> Spectral Balance
https://designers-guide.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1066106418

Message started by skippy on Oct 13^th, 2003, 9:40pm

Title: Spectral Balance
Post by skippy on Oct 13^th, 2003, 9:40pm

Tuinenga claims to have invented a means of extracting the large-signal frequency response of SPICE models, without using the FFT. He calls it spectral balance to differentiate it from Harmonic Balance (HB), where HB uses fast Fourier transforms to generate the frequency domain models. He wrote an article for the eetimes. But does not share any details whatsoever.

http://www.eedesign.com/columns/eda/OEG20031009S0021

Sounds interesting. Does anyone know anything more about this?

Title: Re: Spectral Balance
Post by Frank Wiedmann on Oct 14^th, 2003, 7:17am

Just guessing, but it might be a method similar to the one described in http://www.cadenceusers.org/cgi-bin/viewArchAbstract.cgi?abstractName=PaulW.Tuinenga1.html&authorPic=PaulTuinenga (maybe Ken or Andrew can give us some more details about this paper). To me, it looks like he found a way to extract such a model automatically and then use this model (some kind of frequency domain representation) in the simulation. The article http://www.eedesign.com/story/OEG20031010S0069 gives some background information about Tuinenga and his discovery.

Title: Re: Spectral Balance
Post by skippy on Oct 14^th, 2003, 10:45am

Very intriguing abstract. Thank you for your quick response. Is there a conference proceedings or slides available as well?

Thanks

Title: Re: Spectral Balance
Post by Frank Wiedmann on Oct 14^th, 2003, 11:40am

It appears that proceedings do exist; however, I do not have them. Maybe Ken or Andrew can help us out here.

Title: Re: Spectral Balance
Post by Ken Kundert on Oct 14^th, 2003, 5:43pm

I do not have the proceedings, nor do I have Paul's email address. If someone could send me his address (don't post it), I could invite him to add his comments to this thread.

-Ken

Title: Re: Spectral Balance
Post by Paul Tuinenga on Oct 14^th, 2003, 6:54pm

I would be delighted to e-mail the IEEE BMAS workshop version of the Cadence User Group paper. Please note that I have already found both errors in the paper.

I have not coined the term "spectral balance" which is equivalent to the more common "harmonic balance" in overall approach and results. The key differentiation seems to be whether the device models have an analytic representation in the frequency domain, e.g. the work done by P. J. Khan and M. B. Steer.

So what you see in the workshop paper is this idea expressed at a system block level -- work which definitely prepared me for what I discovered later, but please don't expect that a straight line extrapolation of what you read will lead you there. I will be happy to field questions on the paper, but not about extracting analytic, frequency domain models from SPICE code (at least not in a public forum at this time).

Title: Re: Spectral Balance
Post by Paul Tuinenga on Oct 14^th, 2003, 6:57pm

my e-mail:

tuinenga@alumni.caltech.edu

Title: Re: Spectral Balance
Post by skippy on Oct 14^th, 2003, 9:44pm

Thanks Frank, Paul, and Ken. I am really glad this site provides a forum for these topics.

Title: Re: Spectral Balance
Post by Ken Kundert on Oct 15^th, 2003, 1:47am

My pleasure. My thanks go out to Paul for sharing his ideas.

-Ken