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https://designers-guide.org/forum/YaBB.pl Simulators >> RF Simulators >> how to start a oscillator's phase noise? https://designers-guide.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1241409677 Message started by liletian on May 3rd, 2009, 9:01pm |
Title: how to start a oscillator's phase noise? Post by liletian on May 3rd, 2009, 9:01pm Hi Guys Are any of you familiar with phase noise simulation? I want to simulate ring oscillator phase noise use RFDE or cadence. I had read the tutorial "http://www.odyseus.nildram.co.uk/Systems_And_Devices_Files/PhaseNoise.pdf" But I did not find PM_Demotuned(page 9 of tutorial) in my rfde/ads library and I did not find similar HB balance setup in my rfde. Any suggestion will be appreciated. Thanks |
Title: Re: how to start a oscillator's phase noise? Post by pancho_hideboo on May 3rd, 2009, 10:55pm I can't find out any design issues in your questions. Your questions are no more than a usage of very specific vendor tool. liletian wrote on May 3rd, 2009, 9:01pm:
liletian wrote on May 3rd, 2009, 9:01pm:
(1) There is no library called "rfde/ads". Maybe you refer to "adsLib", right ? (2) I don't know your PM_Demotuned, but "PM_DemodTuned" is not ported to "adsLib". (3) You don't have to use "PM_DemodTuned". Simply do Autonomous-HB with Phase Noise Analysis in Agilent ADS(RFDE) or Autonomous PSS/Pnoise in Cadence Spectre. If you want to use "PM_DemodTuned", choose one of the followings. - Export "PM_DemodTuned" to your library of Cadence Environment by making symbol and necessary CDF parameters. - Include netlist of "PM_DemodTuned" in your ADSsim's netlist under RFDE. - Invoke Dynamic Link, here you can use "PM_DemodTuned" in ADS's native schematic. Again You don't have to use "PM_DemodTuned".. |
Title: Re: how to start a oscillator's phase noise? Post by oermens on May 4th, 2009, 6:46am If you want to use Cadence spectre to simulate, refer to $MMSIM_HOME/doc/spectreRF/spectreRF.pdf there is a section on simulating oscillators. Also check $MMSIM_HOME/tools/spectre/examples/SpectreRF_workshop/SpectreRF_AN and http://www.doe.carleton.ca/~jlam/oscnoise.pdf. Or see my previous post regarding same question: http://www.designers-guide.org/Forum/YaBB.pl?num=1228240587/0 |
Title: Re: how to start a oscillator's phase noise? Post by liletian on May 4th, 2009, 8:46am great, is there a similiar topic show how to do it in RFDE? thanks a lot oermens wrote on May 4th, 2009, 6:46am:
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Title: Re: how to start a oscillator's phase noise? Post by pancho_hideboo on May 4th, 2009, 9:02am liletian wrote on May 3rd, 2009, 9:01pm:
liletian wrote on May 4th, 2009, 8:46am:
http://cp.literature.agilent.com/litweb/pdf/rfde2009/rfdeexamples/intro.html http://cp.literature.agilent.com/litweb/pdf/rfde2009/rfdeexamples/RFIC_MOS_VCO.html http://cp.literature.agilent.com/litweb/pdf/rfde2009/rfde2009.html http://edocs.soco.agilent.com/display/doc/Home |
Title: Re: how to start a oscillator's phase noise? Post by oermens on May 4th, 2009, 11:27am pancho_hideboo wrote on May 4th, 2009, 9:02am:
You can find these and other examples in your local ADS install directory, $HPEESOF_DIR/doc. there are many documents and examples related to RFDE, particularly $HPEESOF_DIR/doc/rfdecktsimhb |
Title: Re: how to start a oscillator's phase noise? Post by liletian on May 5th, 2009, 7:41pm I set up the simulation for ring oscillator ( same HB setting as in example RFIC_MOS_VCO, they can generate correct frequency, but when they calculate phase noise, it took a long time and generate all <NAN>. My VCO is single end ring oscillator and I choose "oscPort" option, for the noise node, I choose the ring oscillator output and ground. carrier mixing index index list 1 the pnmx is <NAN>(invalid), what's the problem? thank you Here is the log. Newton solver: Iter KCL residual Damp % Sol update ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 0.0* 547.964 mA 100.0 1.0 1.16125 pA 100.0 928.989 pV Frequency = 3.228998509 GHz Loop gain = 1.002669399 @ 0.00 deg Fwd I7.V=65.4571 mV 0.01% 2/2 Step=1 0.0* 64.4723 uA 100.0 1.0 12.5225 uA 100.0 1.1 4.95779 uA 100.0 1.2 2.2832 uA 100.0 1.3 1.06254 uA 100.0 1.4 487.958 nA 100.0 1.5 223.439 nA 100.0 1.6 101.612 nA 100.0 1.7 45.8034 nA 100.0 1.8 20.4659 nA 100.0 49.4706 uV 1.9 9.0671 nA 100.0 21.9079 uV 1.10 3.99731 nA 100.0 9.63008 uV 1.11 1.74928 nA 100.0 4.20618 uV Frequency = 2.845147821 GHz Loop gain = 1.001724215 @ 0.00 deg Arclength Newton-Raphson converged at 0.0689305 in 1 iters Fwd I7.V=189.065 mV 0.02% 2/2 Step=1.414213562 0.0* 506.059 uA 100.0 1.0 2.26357 A 100.0 Samanskii-Newton iteration failed 1.1* 2.26357 A 100.0 Frequency = -12.58622406 GHz rejected Fwd I7.V=126.137 mV 0.01% 2/2 Step=0.6734350297 0.0* 193.704 uA 100.0 1.0 82.4983 uA 100.0 1.1 38.1963 uA 100.0 1.2 32.7231 uA 100.0 1.3 25.455 uA 100.0 1.4 17.4229 uA 100.0 1.5 12.0302 uA 100.0 1.6 8.32103 uA 100.0 1.7* 6.36713 uA 100.0 2.0 81.3827 nA 100.0 66.8457 uV 2.1 1.84204 nA 100.0 1.47335 uV Frequency = 2.481891287 GHz Loop gain = 1.000331728 @ 0.00 deg Arclength Newton-Raphson converged at 0.192002 in 2 iters Fwd I7.V=295.166 mV 0.03% 2/2 Step=0.6734350297 0.0* 157.776 uA 100.0 1.0 18.823 uA 100.0 1.1 12.1386 uA 100.0 1.2 4.69602 uA 100.0 1.3 1.87346 uA 100.0 1.4 643.367 nA 100.0 1.5 214.562 nA 100.0 1.6 67.0506 nA 100.0 1.7 20.3028 nA 100.0 18.7545 uV Frequency = 2.089009625 GHz Loop gain = 0.9998665466 @ 0.00 deg Arclength Newton-Raphson converged at 0.297858 in 1 iters Calculating solution at 0.2674891611 0.0 24.4356 uA 100.0 0.1 4.48504 uA 100.0 0.2 1.23672 uA 100.0 0.3 315.379 nA 100.0 0.4 70.4547 nA 100.0 0.5 15.7704 nA 100.0 0.6 3.40399 nA 100.0 Frequency = 2.218761936 GHz Loop gain = 0.9999720313 @ 0.00 deg Newton-Raphson converged at 0.2674891611 Calculating solution at 0.2600632175 0.0 6.03582 uA 100.0 0.1 1.01545 uA 100.0 0.2 336.136 nA 100.0 0.3 99.8599 nA 100.0 0.4 26.0514 nA 100.0 0.5 5.88748 nA 100.0 Frequency = 2.248423782 GHz Loop gain = 1.000000738 @ 0.00 deg Newton-Raphson converged at 0.2600632175 sourceLevel=0 0.00% 1/2 0.0* 236.421 mA 100.0 1.0 386.584 pA 100.0 1.1 775.893 fA 100.0 921.331 pV Frequency = 2.247686993 GHz sourceLevel=1 100.00% 2/2 0.0 81.2609 uA 100.0 0.1 81.2609 uA 100.0 Samanskii-Newton iteration failed 0.2* 81.2609 uA 100.0 Newton iteration failed, damping activated 1.0* 8.48896 uA 50.0 2.0* 40.6305 uA 100.0 3.0* 2.79309 uA 100.0 4.0 25.703 nA 100.0 4.1 506.108 pA 100.0 4.2 11.6193 pA 100.0 35.6766 nV Final oscillation frequency = 2.262356486 GHz HB1_NC1 HB1[1] <input.ckt> noisefreq=1 MHz 1 points Refining oscillator solution to improve phase noise accuracy Warning detected by hpeesofsim during HB analysis `HB1'. An HB truncation error may be present. o The HB truncation error is due to using a finite order (number of harmonics) in the representation of the circuit signals. Waveform Trunc error Tolerance --------------------------------------------------------- I3.T9.nfet_rf.d 1.911e-05 > 1.369e-06 VOUT2 1.906e-05 > 1.369e-06 I3.T11.pfet_rf.d 1.906e-05 > 1.370e-06 I3.T9.nfet_rf.b 7.617e-06 > 1.015e-06 I3.T9.nfet_rf.db 7.401e-06 > 1.018e-06 o Number of waveforms violating the HB truncation error check: 59 out of 149 waveforms. o Estimated max HB truncation error: 1.911e-05 @ waveform I3.T9.nfet_rf.d . o The maximal HB truncation error estimate is greater than the achieved tolerance of 1.369e-06 for this waveform. o A time-domain plot of plot of the sub! waveform may show the error as Gibbs ripples. o To reduce the error, increase the order (number of harmonics) and re-simulate. Flushing data (please wait) ... Resource usage: User time = 612.81 seconds. System time = 1.00 seconds. Total CPU time = 613.81 seconds. Stopwatch time = 629.84 seconds. Physical memory used: 0 Bytes. Incremental virtual memory (data only) used: 54.6 MBytes. |
Title: Re: how to start a oscillator's phase noise? Post by pancho_hideboo on May 6th, 2009, 9:28am liletian wrote on May 3rd, 2009, 9:01pm:
liletian wrote on May 5th, 2009, 7:41pm:
First use "OscTest" and confirm oscillation possibilty. Then proceed to "OscPort". http://edocs.soco.agilent.com/display/ads2009/OscTest+%28Grounded+Oscillator+Test%29 http://edocs.soco.agilent.com/display/ads2009/OscPort+%28Grounded+Oscillator+Port%29 Show me HB_Order and HB_Oversample in your HB Analysis setting. |
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