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https://designers-guide.org/forum/YaBB.pl Design >> Analog Design >> low voltage bjt operation https://designers-guide.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1439695358 Message started by Mohit_Kumar on Aug 15th, 2015, 8:22pm |
Title: low voltage bjt operation Post by Mohit_Kumar on Aug 15th, 2015, 8:22pm Is there any bjt design working below 500 mV. If not why? I was wondering because when they operate Mosfet in sub-threshold it is supposed to behave like a bjt with capacitive divider at the input. Is there any disadvantage of using bjt (excluding input impedance) at lower voltages? Mohit |
Title: Re: low voltage bjt operation Post by RobG on Aug 16th, 2015, 7:26am The emitter-base voltage is too large: on the order of 600mV at room temperature and 800mV at -40C biased at 1uA (the numbers are very rough and depend on size f transistor). You can get some improvement as you lower the current, but each time you half the current you only get a Veb reduction of 17mV at 30C, 13mV at -40C. You'd have to decrease current by 7 orders of magnitude (0.1pA) to get 500mV at -40C, and that wouldn't even give you enough headroom to bias the thing. Also, at low currents you get low level injection which lowers the current gain if the transistor (beta or Hfe). This may not matter if you are just using it as a diode. You can use Schotkey diodes for less base-emitter, but there is some issue or they would be used all the time. |
Title: Re: low voltage bjt operation Post by loose-electron on Aug 18th, 2015, 12:59am RobG wrote on Aug 16th, 2015, 7:26am:
Agreed Vbe does not get adjusted like Vth does. The PN junction on silicon is pretty fixed in characteristics. |
Title: Re: low voltage bjt operation Post by AnilReddy on Sep 12th, 2015, 11:07pm Hi Mohit, What is the intent of trying to use a bjt at low Vbe levels? Bye Anil |
Title: Re: low voltage bjt operation Post by Mos on Sep 13th, 2015, 4:53am Anil, Whenever MOS is used for sub-threshold it is mentioned that it behaves as BJT. So I was curious that why BJT is not used in first place, is it only due to its low impedance. Regards, Mohit |
Title: Re: low voltage bjt operation Post by AnilReddy on Sep 15th, 2015, 10:38pm Hi, May be i should rephrase my question a bit. If the intent of using an MOS device in sub-vt mode is to make it work like a bjt, then you already have a bjt. or, let's say you can directly use a bjt device. Then, if you have a bjt then why again operate it with low vbe? Bye. |
Title: Re: low voltage bjt operation Post by boe on Sep 16th, 2015, 8:04am AniReddy, a sub-vt MOS behaves like a BJT, i.e. has exponential relationship between vgs and id. Depending on your process, the Vbe equivalent (Vgs) can be significantly lower with a MOS. Also, "real" BJTs (with reasonable beta) often require additional masks (and therefore costs). - B O E |
Title: Re: low voltage bjt operation Post by Mos on Sep 22nd, 2015, 7:03pm Anil, I was wondering about the effectiveness of BJT for low-power operation (equivalent to sub-threshold of MOSFET). BJT has more gm for the same current. This was the reason why I asked this question. Regards |
Title: Re: low voltage bjt operation Post by DanielLam on Oct 1st, 2015, 11:42pm BJTs require a Vbe voltage to turn on. The Vbe is usually 600-800 mV. So you can't use BJTs for low voltage operation. I suppose you can look for a low Vbe BJT, but I doubt it will be lower than the Vt of a MOS. BJTs are used for high performance applications. Sub-threshold MOSFETs are used for low power and typically low speed applications. |
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