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https://designers-guide.org/forum/YaBB.pl Design Languages >> Verilog-AMS >> Cannot see VCO phase noise https://designers-guide.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1582573460 Message started by as_rf on Feb 24th, 2020, 11:44am |
Title: Cannot see VCO phase noise Post by as_rf on Feb 24th, 2020, 11:44am Hi all, I have a vco code with jitter and I want to observe phase noise using PSS and PNOISE simulation. What I see is just a constant line for my phase noise. Code:
[img][/img] |
Title: Re: Cannot see VCO phase noise Post by Ken Kundert on Feb 24th, 2020, 8:36pm Pnoise is a small signal analysis. It only includes noise from small-signal sources, and you have none. Furthermore, you should not use the jittery oscillator model with PSS as PSS requires periodic solution but the jittery oscillator does not have one. -Ken |
Title: Re: Cannot see VCO phase noise Post by as_rf on Feb 25th, 2020, 10:37am Thank you very much for clarification. So is there anyway that I make a behavioral VCO and check its phase noise in Cadence virtuoso ? or make a behavioral fixed-frequency oscillator ? Does not have to be VCO. |
Title: Re: Cannot see VCO phase noise Post by as_rf on Feb 25th, 2020, 11:43am My Goal is to be able to make behavioral PLL (Or circuit) and check its phase noise. But I am very confused. There is no solid tutorial for this. |
Title: Re: Cannot see VCO phase noise Post by Ken Kundert on Feb 25th, 2020, 9:31pm Turn off the jitter and add noise using the small signal noise functions. -Ken |
Title: Re: Cannot see VCO phase noise Post by as_rf on Feb 26th, 2020, 12:11am I dont know how to do that. :( |
Title: Re: Cannot see VCO phase noise Post by Ken Kundert on Feb 27th, 2020, 12:31am Set the jitter parameters to zero, so your system will have a periodic steady state response. And then add functions like flicker_noise and white_noise to the models to inject the small signal noise. These functions were demonstrated in the phase domain models given earlier in the paper. -Ken |
Title: Re: Cannot see VCO phase noise Post by Andrew Beckett on Feb 29th, 2020, 4:33am In addition (once the jitter code has been removed or made inactive to ensure it's periodic) there genuinely is a hidden state in there (you are turning off the hidden state checks). The variable n is only being set within the @cross. You can avoid that simply by writing: Code:
There's no begin and end - simply put a semi-colon after the @(cross) as this then ensure's there's a timestep at (or close) to the transition. The variable n is then assigned on every step. If I do this, the code runs in PSS without needing the hidden state being ignored (note I removed that too from the code): Code:
Andrew |
Title: Re: Cannot see VCO phase noise Post by as_rf on Feb 29th, 2020, 10:02pm Thank you very much. But I think still I cannot observe phase noise as explained before. I wanted to do some voltage domain behavioral modeling for PLL phase noise. But it seems that it is very hard. You spend a lot of time on behavioral model then you regret. It is much easier to make the circuit and do the rest. In the next step, I want to learn how to plot phase noise of a PLL (schematic design). Still there is no solid tutorial for it. :-[ |
Title: Re: Cannot see VCO phase noise Post by Andrew Beckett on Mar 1st, 2020, 12:32am Why is it very hard to do the modelling of the noise? Ken already suggested how to do that - it's just a matter of using the flicker_noise and white_noise functions in your Verilog-A models. There are countless models out there that do this, and probably some in these forums too. Andrew. |
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