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Extract fundamental frequency part (Read 5115 times)
gte582w
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Extract fundamental frequency part
Nov 23rd, 2005, 6:41am
 
Hi, I was wondering whether someone has experience
with exacting fundamental frequency part of an output
in cadence IC5.0.

Say, you got an distorted output voltage across a
sweeping load resistor (RL), and I want to plot the
absorbed fundatmental power by RL vs the varing RL,
how to do that?

Thanks,

gte582w
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Jess Chen
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Re: Extract fundamental frequency part
Reply #1 - Nov 23rd, 2005, 10:08am
 
Do you want to extract the fundamental on the fly or after the simulation is finished?

For extraction on the fly, I would probably use a behavioral narrow band filter. You could also multiply the waveform by the fundamental using an ideal multiplier and ideal source, then low pass filter the result.

For post-simulation extraction, I would use the waveform calculator.

I believe there is also a "Fourier" component in the Spectre library, assuming you are using Spectre, but I have never used it.

-Jess
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gte582w
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Re: Extract fundamental frequency part
Reply #2 - Nov 23rd, 2005, 11:03am
 
Thanks, Jess.

Post-simulation processing would be good enough
for me.

I haven't tried the behavior NB filter, seems work
if RL can still load my amp.

I once used the second method you mentioned
but thought that part of the higher harmonics
could actually leak through via multiplication
as DC component and hence couldn't be filtered out.

I am using parametric analysis sweeping the load RL
with transient analysis, then (DFT(output V))^2/2/RL
to plot the power at all harmonics using calculator,
then I just read out the fundamental part, very clumsy
but OK.

PSS do provide sweep and harmonic read out, but
I found the results are off quit a bit, maybe I didn't
use it right.

Any other thoughts?

Thank you all,

-gte582w
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Jess Chen
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Re: Extract fundamental frequency part
Reply #3 - Nov 23rd, 2005, 2:08pm
 
If the independent sources are periodic, and especially if you only have one independent source, I would take the PSS approach. I am surprised that PSS is off. Perhaps we should explore what you mean by "off". If off means PSS and transient analyses differ, I might suspect the transient analysis did not reach steady state. However, if you are certain your transient analysis is right, I would try conservative PSS options with "highorder"=yes in the PSS options. I recently found that a PSS/PAC 3rd order intercept analysis of an ideal third order nonlinearity was correct in the small signal region ONLY with those options. There is a pending pcr on that issue.

-Jess
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gte582w
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Re: Extract fundamental frequency part
Reply #4 - Nov 23rd, 2005, 3:24pm
 
Hi Jess, thanks for those very useful tips.

I just found why the results are off with PSS:
VAR("RL") doesn't give me the swept values,
instead, it is the constant I assigned as design
variable.

As I said, I did PSS and within PSS, I swept
the variable RL. After completion, I uesed the
direct plot form for PSS and choose
voltage as function,
select Net,
Sweep variable,
Signal Level as rms,
Modifier as Magnitude,
Output Harmonic as the fundamental one,
then click add to outputs,

I then used calculator to modify the expression as
((harmonic(rms(v("/RFout" ?result "pss_fd")) '(1))**2)/VAR("RL"))
where the output node net name is RFout,
THE PROBLEM here is that VAR("RL") is the constant
I assigned as design varible, not the swept values.

So now the problem boils down to how to get
the swept values of RL?

I am excited for almost being there.

Thanks,
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Jess Chen
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Re: Extract fundamental frequency part
Reply #5 - Nov 23rd, 2005, 6:57pm
 
I am not 100% sure but I think if you define your calculator expression as an output in the ADE window, the design variable will sweep. I that does not work, you might try sweeping with the Parametric Tool instead of the PSS form, assuming you have a license for that tool.

-Jess
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gte582w
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Re: Extract fundamental frequency part
Reply #6 - Nov 28th, 2005, 6:34am
 
Hi, Jess:

Hope you've had a wonderful holiday.

The second method you suggested works!

Thank you so much for your help!

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