The Designer's Guide Community
Forum
Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register. Please follow the Forum guidelines.
Apr 24th, 2024, 7:31pm
Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
accuracy in transient simulations (Read 5456 times)
vivkr
Community Fellow
*****
Offline



Posts: 780

accuracy in transient simulations
Oct 13th, 2005, 7:39am
 

I am trying to simulate a very highly accurate circuit, and am not very sure if the errors I see are due to the circuit or the simulator. My circuit is a switched-capacitor filter.

I tightened all the accuracy parameters considerably (reltol, abstol) and set relref to "pointlocal". I am also using gear2 integration method to prevent trapezoidal ringing.

However, I see the following dialog

"Convergence difficulties resulted in error requirements being unsatisfied".

I don't know how much simulator error I have now, and hence it is very difficult to get a reliable estimate for the error in the charge-transfer process.

I looked up the guidelines in the "Designer's Guide to Spice & Spectre" and try to use as many of those as I can to achieve better convergence. I cannot use "gmin" as I have a charge-transfer going on, but I use "cmin".

Could someone suggest some tips for improving convergence and accuracy in Spectre transient analysis?

Many thanks and Best Regards
Vivek
Back to top
 
 
View Profile   IP Logged
Geoffrey_Coram
Senior Fellow
******
Offline



Posts: 1998
Massachusetts, USA
Re: accuracy in transient simulations
Reply #1 - Nov 14th, 2005, 8:32am
 
Have you perhaps over-tightened your tolerances?  It's possible that the values you set aren't possible to achieve given the finite numerical precision of the computer.  If you have 1A out of one device and into another, you shouldn't expect to get better than 1e-15A for KCL at the node; if you set reltol and abstol to 1e-15, you might never get convergence.
Back to top
 
 

If at first you do succeed, STOP, raise your standards, and stop wasting your time.
View Profile WWW   IP Logged
sheldon
Community Fellow
*****
Offline



Posts: 751

Re: accuracy in transient simulations
Reply #2 - Nov 18th, 2005, 9:31pm
 
Vivkr,

  Is the circuit entirely transistor level or is it mixed-blocks of
transistor and behavior models?  Usually this warning is telling
you that you have a badly behaved behavioral model. For
example, an output from a conditional without a transition
filter. I believe that Geoffrey is correct your simulator tolerances
maybe too tight and it would be it would be better to look at the
device and behavioral models for potential issues.

                                                                 Best Regards,

                                                                     Sheldon
                       
Back to top
 
 
View Profile   IP Logged
Ken Kundert
Global Moderator
*****
Offline



Posts: 2384
Silicon Valley
Re: accuracy in transient simulations
Reply #3 - Nov 18th, 2005, 10:20pm
 
You have set the tolerances too tight. You should start by setting them all back to their default values, and then follow the guidelines given in Section 4.4.4 (page 224) of "The Designer's Guide to SPICE and Spectre".

-Ken
Back to top
 
 
View Profile WWW   IP Logged
Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
Copyright 2002-2024 Designer’s Guide Consulting, Inc. Designer’s Guide® is a registered trademark of Designer’s Guide Consulting, Inc. All rights reserved. Send comments or questions to editor@designers-guide.org. Consider submitting a paper or model.