The Designer's Guide Community
Forum
Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register. Please follow the Forum guidelines.
Aug 15th, 2024, 11:13am
Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
Why do we plot magnitude vs. jw (Read 4624 times)
Croaker
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 235

Why do we plot magnitude vs. jw
Jan 18th, 2007, 8:17am
 
Let's say we take an s-domain transfer function H(s).  This is really a 3D surface where the x-axis is sigma, y-axis is j*omega (or jw) and the z-axis is the magnitude ( s=sigma + j*omega ).  When making a Bode plot, we only look at the slice where sigma = 0, i.e. we are plotting the magnitude values of the z-axis vs. the y or jw axis.  

Why are we only interested in this magnitude along the jw axis?  (Of course this gives us our frequency response, but I never thought too deeply about the nature of the s-plane before).  

What would be the significance of plotting a slice where sigma != 0?
Back to top
 
 
View Profile   IP Logged
Ken Kundert
Global Moderator
*****
Offline



Posts: 2386
Silicon Valley
Re: Why do we plot magnitude vs. jw
Reply #1 - Jan 18th, 2007, 8:36am
 
σ = 0 corresponds to the case of sinusoidal steady state. If you allow σ > 0 then you are choosing signals to represent both the stimulus and response that are growing exponentials. If σ < 0 then your signals are all decaying exponentials. When σ = 0 the signals are all simple sinusoids, and so the response you compute is the sinusoidal steady-state response. The case where σ = 0 is also referred to as phasor analysis.

-Ken
Back to top
 
 
View Profile WWW   IP Logged
Croaker
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 235

Re: Why do we plot magnitude vs. jw
Reply #2 - Jan 18th, 2007, 10:00am
 
OK, that makes sense since you want your Bode plot to show the magnitude in response to sinusoids at various frequencies.   Smiley

Is there any case where you'd want to look at a magnitude slice where say σ < 0 ?  (I just noticed the Greek alphabet feature!)  I guess this would be the magnitude plotted at various frequencies of a decaying sinusoid.
Back to top
 
 
View Profile   IP Logged
mg777
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 131

Re: Why do we plot magnitude vs. jw
Reply #3 - Jan 18th, 2007, 12:27pm
 

The interesting thing (provided you assume nice functions that are absolutely integrable) is that both the representations are entire. That is, you could use either the Fourier kernel exp(jwt) or the Laplace kernel exp(st) for unique linear decompositions with arbitrarily bounded LMS error. In some sense it's like how a function can be expanded either as a Fourier series (sine and cosine) or as a Chebyshev series (Tn) with the latter converging much faster within a certain zone (what would be called the 'passband' in Chebyshev filters). Also gives some idea of why wavelet representations are more dense than Fourier or Laplace, and why the Karhunen-Loeve expansion of an AWGN contains the least number of eigenvalues.

Basis functions bear out George Orwell's inunction that "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others"

M.G.Rajan
www.eecalc.com

Back to top
 
 
View Profile   IP Logged
wuyuchun
New Member
*
Offline



Posts: 3

Re: Why do we plot magnitude vs. jw
Reply #4 - Jan 18th, 2007, 11:27pm
 
If you use a H(s) in which sigma/=0,then you get a response(including amplitude and phase) to not pure sine but attenuated or amplified increasingly . But our analysis of a system is base on sum of sine in different frequence,so we assume sigma=0,and deduce the bode plot.
Back to top
 
 
View Profile   IP Logged
Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
Copyright 2002-2024 Designer’s Guide Consulting, Inc. Designer’s Guide® is a registered trademark of Designer’s Guide Consulting, Inc. All rights reserved. Send comments or questions to editor@designers-guide.org. Consider submitting a paper or model.