The Designer's Guide Community
Forum
Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register. Please follow the Forum guidelines.
Oct 5th, 2024, 8:20pm
Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
VCO question (Read 4756 times)
YeeQ
New Member
*
Offline



Posts: 4

VCO question
Feb 23rd, 2007, 10:45pm
 
Hi,

I have a question about making VCO stop oscillating.

When doing 3-stage VCO design, I want to verify that - when low frequency gain of the delay cell is smaller than 2 (i.e. 6.02dB), the VCO will stop oscillating because the insufficient gain.

I run AC simulation on one delay cell (with parasitic loading), tuned the bias voltage to make it gain=5.45dB (<6.02dB). Then, I applied the bias voltage on VCO, however, the VCO doesn't stop oscillation.

The DC operating point is set at where the input common mode close to output common mode.

I don't know what I missed in the simulation, please help, thank you!
Back to top
 
 
View Profile   IP Logged
ywguo
Community Fellow
*****
Offline



Posts: 943
Shanghai, PRC
Re: VCO question
Reply #1 - Feb 28th, 2007, 9:53pm
 
Hi,

Quote:
When doing 3-stage VCO design, I want to verify that - when low frequency gain of the delay cell is smaller than 2 (i.e. 6.02dB), the VCO will stop oscillating because the insufficient gain.


I don't think that is a correct condition that makes the VCO stop oscillate. Would you please explain it?


Thanks
Yawei
Back to top
 
 
View Profile   IP Logged
YeeQ
New Member
*
Offline



Posts: 4

Re: VCO question
Reply #2 - Mar 2nd, 2007, 12:13pm
 
assume one-stage transfer function is A0/(1+S/w0), three stages would be H(s)=A0^3/(1+S/w0)^3

To achieve oscillation,
1) phase shift of each stage is 60deg. i.e. fosc=f0 * sqrt(3)
2) at oscillating freq., |H(s)|>=1. Applying condition 1), min. A0=2 (i.e. 6.02dB)

I wonder if my AC simulation setup is not correct. For the inputs to the diff. pair, vin is connected to DC common mode voltage, vip is connected to an AC source (with DC common mode voltage).  or should I connect both inputs vin and vip to two seperated AC sources?

Thanks,
YeeQ



Back to top
 
 
View Profile   IP Logged
mg777
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 131

Re: VCO question
Reply #3 - Mar 2nd, 2007, 12:41pm
 
The oscillation frequency needs to be determined by a resonant element. In a digital ring oscillator the oscillation frequency is determined by the loop delay, but an analog oscillator can build up the wiggles out of noise. By 'out of noise' I mean that the 'template' signal comes from the bandpass filter acting on noise, the energy for the oscillation has to come from the negative resistor.

In fact your circuit sounds like the Wien bridge oscillator:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wien_bridge_oscillator

I didn't know that Hewlett (of HP fame) is credited with making Wien's idea work, neat stuff with the lightbulb.

M.G.Rajan
www.eecalc.com

Back to top
 
 
View Profile   IP Logged
fonseca.ha
Junior Member
**
Offline



Posts: 28
UK
Re: VCO question
Reply #4 - Mar 6th, 2007, 4:58am
 
Just for some cross checks:
Does the oscillator oscillate at the same frequency that resulted in 60deg phase margin when making the AC sim?

I think that analisys may not correlate because the AC is computed from the small signal analisys at a given DC point, and nomally ring oscillators have big swings and cannot be treated as operating in a linear region,

Regards,
Humberto
Back to top
 
 
View Profile   IP Logged
adesign
Community Member
***
Offline



Posts: 73

Re: VCO question
Reply #5 - Mar 7th, 2007, 10:27pm
 
fonseca.ha wrote on Mar 6th, 2007, 4:58am:
Just for some cross checks:
Does the oscillator oscillate at the same frequency that resulted in 60deg phase margin when making the AC sim?

I think that analisys may not correlate because the AC is computed from the small signal analisys at a given DC point, and nomally ring oscillators have big swings and cannot be treated as operating in a linear region,

Regards,
Humberto



You are right Humberto. Initially, for small swings, we can say that the gain required is 2. However, when the swing goes large enough, the small-signal analysis is no longer valid and in that case the output frequency is given by 1/(2nT) where n is the no. of inverting stages and T is the delay per stage.

Hope it helps.
Back to top
 
 
View Profile   IP Logged
nandy
Junior Member
**
Offline



Posts: 29
Timbuktu
Re: VCO question
Reply #6 - Mar 21st, 2007, 9:03am
 
Since the gain used here is only slightly lesser than 2, any disturbance anywhere (due to noise) would result in ringing for some period of time. Although in the small signal sense this oscillation isn't self-sustaining, the inverters pick up this disturbance and blow it up into a large-signal full-scale oscillation. So, I guess, your oscillator can potentially oscillate unless the gain of each stage is reduced well below 2.
Back to top
 
 
View Profile   IP Logged
Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
Copyright 2002-2024 Designer’s Guide Consulting, Inc. Designer’s Guide® is a registered trademark of Designer’s Guide Consulting, Inc. All rights reserved. Send comments or questions to editor@designers-guide.org. Consider submitting a paper or model.