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About Noise Value of time domain PNOISE analysis (Read 3924 times)
JC
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About Noise Value of time domain PNOISE analysis
Jul 4th, 2007, 4:44pm
 
When I use Pnoise analysis with noise type "timedomain" for a simple circuit (attached), I find the time domain value of output noise current through Vpulse is different with theoretical value sqrt(4KTG).

If doing Pnoise analysis with noise type "source", the PSD of output noise current is theoretical value  4KTG.

What does the noise value given by time domain Pnoise analysis represent?

-JC


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« Last Edit: Jul 05th, 2007, 2:15am by JC »  

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Frank Wiedmann
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Re: About Noise Value of time domain PNOISE analys
Reply #1 - Jul 5th, 2007, 1:10am
 
What you are seeing is aliasing as shown in figure 3 of http://www.designers-guide.org/Analysis/sc-filters.pdf. I would suggest that you read section 2.2 of this paper in order to better understand the meaning of the pnoise results.
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JC
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Re: About Noise Value of time domain PNOISE analys
Reply #2 - Jul 5th, 2007, 2:10am
 
Frank

Thanks for reply

I don't think there is aliasing or folding effect in the above circuit , because the thermal noise generated by the conductance is not modulated, neither the signal path from noise to output (Vpulse) is modulated.

Maybe I don't show clearly in the above circuit, which consists of a periodic pulse voltage source without noise and a resistor with the option "isnoisy=yes".

I have read that Ken's paper roughly but I haven't got the answer yet. I will read again carefully.

-JC
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Frank Wiedmann
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Re: About Noise Value of time domain PNOISE analys
Reply #3 - Jul 5th, 2007, 3:02am
 
Pnoise timedomain analysis includes an implicit sampling operation, this is where the aliasing comes from in your case. Because your circuit has infinite bandwidth, the noise you see should scale linearly with the number of sidebands you specify in your simulation setup.
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JC
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Re: About Noise Value of time domain PNOISE analys
Reply #4 - Jul 5th, 2007, 3:40am
 
Frank:

Thanks a lot! You are totally right. By simluation I found SpectreRF includes this frequency aliasing effect itself.

So I think due to this behavior of PNOISE timedomain analysis I should be very carefull to choose a proper probe to observe noise otherwise the noise obsvered may be not the real one!

-JC
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