The Designer's Guide Community
Forum
Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register. Please follow the Forum guidelines.
Jul 16th, 2024, 8:25pm
Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
Third derivative (Read 3460 times)
Nano_Model
Junior Member
**
Offline



Posts: 10

Third derivative
Aug 04th, 2007, 11:23am
 
For Newton's method to work, the third derivative of a device I-V has to exist. Is that true? Why's that?
Back to top
 
 
View Profile   IP Logged
Geoffrey_Coram
Senior Fellow
******
Offline



Posts: 1999
Massachusetts, USA
Re: Third derivative
Reply #1 - Aug 6th, 2007, 6:21am
 
What do you mean by "work"?

It may be that the proof of global convergence of Newton's method requires a third derivative.  However, I'm sure that many circuit simulators converge fine even when some of the functions don't even have second derivatives.  They're not using strict Newton-Raphson (there's some damping of the steps), and they're not guaranteed to converge -- they just "usually" do.
Back to top
 
 

If at first you do succeed, STOP, raise your standards, and stop wasting your time.
View Profile WWW   IP Logged
Visjnoe
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 233

Re: Third derivative
Reply #2 - Aug 13th, 2007, 12:04pm
 
Dear Nano_Model,

given a good intial guess, the convergence criterium for Newton-Raphson is:

Code:
|f(x)f"(x)|<[f`(x)]^2  



So there's no third derivative involved.


Regards

Peter
Back to top
 
 
View Profile   IP Logged
Nano_Model
Junior Member
**
Offline



Posts: 10

Re: Third derivative
Reply #3 - Aug 14th, 2007, 5:16pm
 
Huh oh really.

Now I have another very basic question. Why is Newton Raphson method "dominates" circuit simulation methods?
Back to top
 
 
View Profile   IP Logged
Visjnoe
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 233

Re: Third derivative
Reply #4 - Aug 15th, 2007, 12:04am
 
Dear Nano_Model,

I cannot help you with this one. I just know it is a classic numerical method to solve a set of nonlinear algebraic equations. If you have other (better) numerical methods, you can build your own simulator I guess Smiley

Regards

Peter
Back to top
 
 
View Profile   IP Logged
Nano_Model
Junior Member
**
Offline



Posts: 10

Re: Third derivative
Reply #5 - Aug 20th, 2007, 2:28pm
 
Hi Peter....thanks I hope I "will" come up with such a better method .... Grin
Back to top
 
 
View Profile   IP Logged
Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
Copyright 2002-2024 Designer’s Guide Consulting, Inc. Designer’s Guide® is a registered trademark of Designer’s Guide Consulting, Inc. All rights reserved. Send comments or questions to editor@designers-guide.org. Consider submitting a paper or model.