The Designer's Guide Community
Forum
Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register. Please follow the Forum guidelines.
Jul 16th, 2024, 4:23pm
Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
QPSS simulation for Mixer with LO dividers (Read 1264 times)
Tuc
New Member
*
Offline



Posts: 5

QPSS simulation for Mixer with LO dividers
Jul 03rd, 2008, 12:02am
 
Hi, guys,

I'm running QPSS (Flexible Balance) for mixers with LO dividers, however, the speed is untolerable. It takes about 5 hours for one QPSS iteration!!

Is there any methods to speed up the simulation? Thanks very much.

-- Tuc
Back to top
 
 
View Profile   IP Logged
Stefan
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 124

Re: QPSS simulation for Mixer with LO dividers
Reply #1 - Jul 3rd, 2008, 12:54am
 
With so few information, the only possible hint is to simplify your circuit ... check your frequencies, maybe you can skip the RF divider using PWLs ...
Back to top
 
 
View Profile 16731287   IP Logged
sheldon
Community Fellow
*****
Offline



Posts: 751

Re: QPSS simulation for Mixer with LO dividers
Reply #2 - Jul 3rd, 2008, 6:13am
 
Tuc,

  Some information would be useful in assisting you,

What are the clock and input frequencies?
What are the divide ratios?
Are you using the freqdivide option?
How many tones/fundamental are you using?
Do all the tones at the same frequency have the same fundname
or do you have different fundnames for I,Q,I_, and Q_?

                                                                    Best Regards,

                                                                       Sheldon
Back to top
 
 
View Profile   IP Logged
Tuc
New Member
*
Offline



Posts: 5

Re: QPSS simulation for Mixer with LO dividers
Reply #3 - Jul 3rd, 2008, 6:27am
 
Thank you very much for your reply, Sheldon and Stefan.

What are the clock and input frequencies?
-- The clock is around 100MHz, input frequencies is at the same level.

What are the divide ratios?
-- Four.

Are you using the freqdivide option?
-- Yes, I did.
How many tones/fundamental are you using?
-- Two tone at the RF input (100.5MHz and 100.6MHz), and one tone at LO (400MHz, after dividing should be 100MHz).

Do all the tones at the same frequency have the same fundname
-- No same freq.

or do you have different fundnames for I,Q,I_, and Q_?
-- ? I do not catch this question, sorry.

Thanks,
Tuc
Back to top
 
 
View Profile   IP Logged
pancho_hideboo
Senior Fellow
******
Offline



Posts: 1424
Real Homeless
Re: QPSS simulation for Mixer with LO dividers
Reply #4 - Jul 3rd, 2008, 6:45am
 
Tuc wrote on Jul 3rd, 2008, 12:02am:
I'm running QPSS (Flexible Balance) for mixers with LO dividers, however, the speed is untolerable. It takes about 5 hours for one QPSS iteration!!
Is there any methods to speed up the simulation?

Show me portions of your netlist regarding signal statement,  analysis statement and option statement.
Also show me version of your Cadence Spectre.

http://www.designers-guide.org/Forum/YaBB.pl?num=1205223090
http://www.designers-guide.org/Forum/YaBB.pl?num=1208334972
http://www.designers-guide.org/Forum/YaBB.pl?num=1208883935

Back to top
 
 
View Profile WWW Top+Secret Top+Secret   IP Logged
Tuc
New Member
*
Offline



Posts: 5

Re: QPSS simulation for Mixer with LO dividers
Reply #5 - Jul 3rd, 2008, 9:08am
 
Thank you, Pancho. Here's the related netlist:

PORT_lo (net063 0) port r=50 num=1 type=sine freq=flo_div dbm=plo_div \
       fundname="flo_div"
PORT_rf (vin 0) port r=50 type=sine freq=frf dbm=prf freq2=fund2 dbm2=prf \
       pacdbm=prf mag=1 fundname="frf" fundname2="fund2"

simulatorOptions options reltol=1e-3 vabstol=1e-6 iabstol=1e-12 temp=27 \
   tnom=27 scalem=1.0 scale=1.0 gmin=1e-12 rforce=1 maxnotes=5 maxwarns=5 \
   digits=5 cols=80 pivrel=1e-3 sensfile="../psf/sens.output" \
   checklimitdest=psf
dcOp dc write="spectre.dc" maxiters=150 maxsteps=10000 annotate=status
dcOpInfo info what=oppoint where=rawfile
sweepqpss  sweep  param=prf  start=-60  stop=-20  lin=1
+          values=[-40]  {
 qpss  qpss  flexbalance=yes  oversample=[4  1  1]
+       funds=["flo_div"  "frf"  "fund2"]  maxharms=[4  3  3]
+       errpreset=moderate  tstab=100n  annotate=status  freqdivide=4

}

The Spectre version is 6.1.0.151 -- 26 May 2006.

-- Tuc
Back to top
 
 
View Profile   IP Logged
pancho_hideboo
Senior Fellow
******
Offline



Posts: 1424
Real Homeless
Re: QPSS simulation for Mixer with LO dividers
Reply #6 - Jul 3rd, 2008, 5:35pm
 
Unless you need both upper and lower IM3, you can invoke 2 tone HB-QPSS/QPAC instead of 3 tone HB-QPSS.

Tuc wrote on Jul 3rd, 2008, 9:08am:
PORT_lo (net063 0) port r=50 num=1 type=sine freq=flo_div dbm=plo_div \
      fundname="flo_div"

In the above, flo_div is 400MHz ?

Tuc wrote on Jul 3rd, 2008, 9:08am:
PORT_rf (vin 0) port r=50 type=sine freq=frf dbm=prf freq2=fund2 dbm2=prf \
      pacdbm=prf mag=1 fundname="frf" fundname2="fund2"

In the above, frf=100.5MHz and fund2=100.6MHz ?

Tuc wrote on Jul 3rd, 2008, 9:08am:
sweepqpss  sweep  param=prf  start=-60  stop=-20  lin=1
+          values=[-40]  {

Why do you set lin=1 ?

Tuc wrote on Jul 3rd, 2008, 9:08am:
 qpss  qpss  flexbalance=yes  oversample=[4  1  1]
+       funds=["flo_div"  "frf"  "fund2"]  maxharms=[4  3  3]
+       errpreset=moderate  tstab=100n  annotate=status  freqdivide=4
}

Add restart=no  maxperiods=200.
And you had better increase maxharms of "flo_div".
It might be rather fast if you set tstab=0n.

Tuc wrote on Jul 3rd, 2008, 9:08am:
The Spectre version is 6.1.0.151 -- 26 May 2006.

Although HB-QPSS of SpectreRF is still very slow compared to Agilent ADS or GoldenGate even if I use current SpectreRF, I think its simulation speed is practical level.

But HB-QPSS of old SpectreRF such as 6.0USR1, 6.0USR2, 6.1 is very very very slow and doesn't converge at all in many cases.
So they are not practical usel level.
Since you are using fairly old SpectreRF, simulation speed will be still slow even if you do tuning of netlist.

I recommend you to update Spectre.

Back to top
 
« Last Edit: Jul 4th, 2008, 9:13am by pancho_hideboo »  
View Profile WWW Top+Secret Top+Secret   IP Logged
Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
Copyright 2002-2024 Designer’s Guide Consulting, Inc. Designer’s Guide® is a registered trademark of Designer’s Guide Consulting, Inc. All rights reserved. Send comments or questions to editor@designers-guide.org. Consider submitting a paper or model.