The Designer's Guide Community
Forum
Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register. Please follow the Forum guidelines.
Aug 15th, 2024, 10:29am
Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
Phase noise floor CMOS buffer (Read 3136 times)
Visjnoe
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 233

Phase noise floor CMOS buffer
Jul 16th, 2008, 10:23am
 
Dear all,

when simulating the phase noise of an oscillator + CMOS buffer it turns out that the wideband phase noise is dominated by contributions of the CMOS buffer. The simulator returns a phase noise floor of -160dBc/Hz (broadband noise). Can the simulator be trusted to resolve such low levels accurately (assuming accurate device models)?

I would say yes, but I would like to hear if someone thinks otherwise. The reason for asking is a discrepancy between measurements and simulations. Assuming a phase noise floor of -150dBc/Hz would lead to agreement between measurements and simulations.
Personally, I think 10dB is a huge difference so I don't think simulator inaccuracy is a likely cause...

Regards

Peter
Back to top
 
 
View Profile   IP Logged
ACWWong
Community Fellow
*****
Offline



Posts: 539
Oxford, UK
Re: Phase noise floor CMOS buffer
Reply #1 - Jul 16th, 2008, 12:42pm
 
I don't think simulator accuracy is to blame... maybe simulator setup or model accuracy, test bench setup, inclusion of all losses like layout parasitics etc.
Previously I have simulated around -160dBc/Hz and also measured within a dB or so of the simulation on the bench.
Are you getting the expected output power & frequency ?
Back to top
 
 
View Profile   IP Logged
Visjnoe
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 233

Re: Phase noise floor CMOS buffer
Reply #2 - Jul 16th, 2008, 11:30pm
 
Dear ACWong,

yes, power and frequency are correct.
I also ran simulations on an extracted netlist, including bondpad/package parasitics + noise from the biasing.

Regards

Peter
Back to top
 
 
View Profile   IP Logged
ACWWong
Community Fellow
*****
Offline



Posts: 539
Oxford, UK
Re: Phase noise floor CMOS buffer
Reply #3 - Jul 17th, 2008, 2:12am
 
i guess if the output power is expected then this is evidence that the VCO drive to the buffer is as expected also. is there any VCO measurement without the buffer ?

how is the measurement setup, is it capable of measuring -160dBc/Hz ?
is the setup run from a battery ?

otherwise i guess the noise modelling of the devices isn't up to scratch then... 10dB is quite alot.
Back to top
 
 
View Profile   IP Logged
Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
Copyright 2002-2024 Designer’s Guide Consulting, Inc. Designer’s Guide® is a registered trademark of Designer’s Guide Consulting, Inc. All rights reserved. Send comments or questions to editor@designers-guide.org. Consider submitting a paper or model.