ACWWong wrote on Jun 2nd, 2009, 9:04am:Hi Vivkr & Berti,
Thanks for the discussion.
I'm not really used to looking at very low frequency bandwidths... passive mixers i've looked at in the haven't had switching device flicker noise anywhere in the top 20 pnoise contirbutors... so i've generally believed no DC -> no flicker noise. Having said that a colleague just sent me the attached paper....
http://www.imec.be/esscirc/esscirc2001/C01_Presentations/16.pdfAnyway just wondering if people have used SC circuits on signal bandwidths of 1 to 100 Hz.... is it normal to see the switches fn to be a major noise contributor ?? (the switches seem to switching fine without any DC current, and the ADC is only about 8~9 bit)
cheers
aw
Hi Alan,
Indeed, switched-capacitor circuits are overwhelmingly used for lower speed applications than continuous-time circuits, and this because they cannot operate as fast.
The band from 1-100 Hz is probably entirely dominated by switched-cap circuits. I have made upto 20 bit accurate switched-cap circuits for low-frequencies (< 200 Hz), and never have I seen 1/f noise from switches popping up in the noise contributors.
But I will go through this presentation.
Berti: The classical model for 1/f noise requires that there is DC current flow. As a matter of fact, the formula for the output current noise (1/f) is something like
Inoise_1/f = K_process*Idc^alpha_idc/f^alpha_freq
where the default for alpha_idc and alpha_freq is 1. So if there is no DC current, then this noise should go to zero. Note that no textbook says what happens with AC current flow, or if there is a time-averaged DC current flow (such as when a switched-capacitor circuit is simply charging and discharging itself between 2 fixed states).
There was also some interesting work in the research group lead by Eric Klumpernik (Google for him) where they found out that turning transistors completely OFF and then turning them ON periodically reduces 1/f noise much more than what would be expected by mere duty cycle reduction.
As 1/f noise is still not understood fully, one needs to be a bit careful with it, but so far I have never experienced it as coming from the switches, atleast not so far.
Best regards,
Vivek