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Regulated Cascode (Read 2881 times)
raja.cedt
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Regulated Cascode
Aug 01st, 2009, 3:02am
 
hi,
 can any body please tell me whats the main difference between these two circuits? what i see is manly in the first ckt we can keep vds of M1 constant with applied reference voltage..but in the second one by changing the currents we can change..i am expecting apart from this

Thanks,
rajasekhar.
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AnalogDE
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Re: Regulated Cascode
Reply #1 - Aug 2nd, 2009, 8:56pm
 
Not sure what's going on with the second circuit.  You can build a single transistor error amplifier to accomplish the same with the attached ckt.

T2 = Cascode
T3 = error amplifier
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raja.cedt
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Re: Regulated Cascode
Reply #2 - Aug 2nd, 2009, 9:49pm
 
hi,
   i know the ckt what you have given.but what i want to ask is is output impedance is same in both case's what i have given?
i think ans is yes.



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rajasekhar.
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Berti
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Re: Regulated Cascode
Reply #3 - Aug 3rd, 2009, 12:00am
 
I am not completely sure, but the circuit of Steve has the problem that T3 has to  be operated in subthreshold region if vds of T1 is not sufficiently high.

T4 might circumvent the problem by providing a levelshift. However, the bias current through T4 must be small compared to the main branch.

Cheers
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RobG
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Re: Regulated Cascode
Reply #4 - Aug 3rd, 2009, 8:44am
 
raja.cedt wrote on Aug 2nd, 2009, 9:49pm:
hi,
   i know the ckt what you have given.but what i want to ask is is output impedance is same in both case's what i have given?
i think ans is yes.


Actually, the answer is maybe. The output impedance is boosted by the loop gain of the feedback network. For example, if you use a 2 stage opamp it will produce a higher output impedance than the circuit on the right.

rg
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RobG
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Re: Regulated Cascode
Reply #5 - Aug 3rd, 2009, 8:57am
 
Berti wrote on Aug 3rd, 2009, 12:00am:
T4 might circumvent the problem by providing a levelshift. However, the bias current through T4 must be small compared to the main branch.

Cheers


Sorry for dominating these conversations, but I hope I'm being helpful.

The circuit on the right has been used for a long time. It is a wide swing regulated current source. As you guessed, M4 provides level shifting so that M1 has the minimal voltage across it without going linear. The current does not have to be small, but M1 must be sized to handle it. In fact, if the current is too small it will reduce the phase margin of the gain boosting circuit.

rg
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raja.cedt
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Re: Regulated Cascode
Reply #6 - Aug 3rd, 2009, 2:01pm
 
hi guys,
          thanks for your answers.

@berthi: hi,i understand your reply..but is there any problem if it is in sub threshold region, what i am thinking is loop will be very slow and may effect stability..please correct me if any thing wrong..

@RobG: How low current will decrease PM?

Thanks,
Rajasekhar.
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RobG
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Re: Regulated Cascode
Reply #7 - Aug 3rd, 2009, 4:33pm
 
raja.cedt wrote on Aug 3rd, 2009, 2:01pm:
@RobG: How low current will decrease PM?

M4, M3, and M2 create a local feedback loop. M4 just acts as a level shifter, but it's impedance (1/gm) will react with the gate-source cap of M3 and introduce a pole. Therefore you want the current through M4 to be large enough so that the pole doesn't affect the phase margin of this local feedback loop.
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AnalogDE
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Re: Regulated Cascode
Reply #8 - Aug 11th, 2009, 1:48pm
 
In the second circuit, the level shifter (M4) could also be implemented as a source follower (instead of the diode connected device).  Upside is that there is no error current going into the mirror... What would be the downside(s)?

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RobG
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Re: Regulated Cascode
Reply #9 - Aug 11th, 2009, 7:11pm
 
AnalogDE wrote on Aug 11th, 2009, 1:48pm:
In the second circuit, the level shifter (M4) could also be implemented as a source follower (instead of the diode connected device).  Upside is that there is no error current going into the mirror... What would be the downside(s)?



Unfortunately the source follower would need to be a PMOS its Vt would not track with the NMOS amp (M3) Vt. This is needed to provide the proper Vds  for M1. The only way I've been able to do it without the diode connected device is to use a PMOS diff pair opamp.
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