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Trans-impedance amplifier (Read 843 times)
raja.cedt
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Trans-impedance amplifier
Feb 18th, 2013, 4:23pm
 
hello,
can any one tell me how this amplifier works, don't know how it will work without -ve feedback?

Thanks,
Raj.
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Vladislav D
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Re: Trans-impedance amplifier
Reply #1 - Feb 19th, 2013, 12:26am
 
The first stage is a common gate , the second is common drain. The AC current converted to a voltage at the source of M2 and amplified by CG stage. CD stage performs many function (like lowering output impedance, current amplification, level shifting, whatever)  except voltage amplification. If ro_M1 >> Rd, the input impedance without feedback 1/gm1. Applying feedback, the impedance decreases even more by amount of Loop Gain. This is desirable since, the input source is current.
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Lex
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Re: Trans-impedance amplifier
Reply #2 - Feb 19th, 2013, 2:19am
 
Vladislav nailed it pretty much, though it looks like two non inverting stages are connected. Is this thing actually stable? Maybe I'm missing something here...

Btw, common gate input stage is used to lower the impedance and can be quite useful when Cpd is not well defined.
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raja.cedt
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Re: Trans-impedance amplifier
Reply #3 - Feb 19th, 2013, 3:05am
 
hello all,
i agree with  that feedback stuff, basically it is not -ve feedback, did you observed that?

Thanks,
Raj.
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Praveen K
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Re: Trans-impedance amplifier
Reply #4 - Feb 19th, 2013, 3:54am
 
Hi Vladislav,

Can you explain me intuitively, how the impedance reduces by loop gain with feedback. probably if i sit and write small single models equations i may get it. But can you give me an intuitive explanation of it.  


Since M1 and M2 are connected to Vb, M2 will be in triode region. What is the significance of M2 here. Can we replace it with a current bias??

thanks for your insight,
Praveen

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raja.cedt
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Re: Trans-impedance amplifier
Reply #5 - Feb 19th, 2013, 4:46am
 
hello praveen,
Here Vb indicates bias, they are not equal. Imagine entire circuit is an open loop amp and rf is feedback resister, look at the impedance without Rf, it will be 1/gm. With feedback it will lower just because resister draws some current which is not the case in without res.

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Raj.
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Larry_80
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Re: Trans-impedance amplifier
Reply #6 - Feb 20th, 2013, 5:05pm
 
Is this supposed to be a RCG TIA?
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raja.cedt
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Re: Trans-impedance amplifier
Reply #7 - Feb 20th, 2013, 10:15pm
 
RCG means?

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raj.
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Larry_80
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Re: Trans-impedance amplifier
Reply #8 - Feb 21st, 2013, 10:35am
 
Regulated Cascode. (Regulated common Gate)
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RobG
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Re: Trans-impedance amplifier
Reply #9 - Feb 23rd, 2013, 1:11pm
 
Lex wrote on Feb 19th, 2013, 2:19am:
Vladislav nailed it pretty much, though it looks like two non inverting stages are connected. Is this thing actually stable? Maybe I'm missing something here...

Btw, common gate input stage is used to lower the impedance and can be quite useful when Cpd is not well defined.


yeah, you need an inversion somewhere. Perhaps M3 was supposed to be a PMOS.
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RobG
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Re: Trans-impedance amplifier
Reply #10 - Feb 23rd, 2013, 1:25pm
 
Even if the polarity was correct Rd sets the bias current in M1 so the output voltage will be dependent on Vdd (a change in I(M1) will go through the feedback resistor since the input current doesn't change). The best use for this circuit is to send it to a competitor that you don't like.
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Vladislav D
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Re: Trans-impedance amplifier
Reply #11 - Feb 23rd, 2013, 3:47pm
 
RobG wrote on Feb 23rd, 2013, 1:25pm:
Even if the polarity was correct Rd sets the bias current in M1 so the output voltage will be dependent on Vdd (a change in I(M1) will go through the feedback resistor since the input current doesn't change). The best use for this circuit is to send it to a competitor that you don't like.


I think it's quite difficult to say if this is a good or bad circuit without knowledge about the application where it is used. And the function it implements. Probably, it can be stable if loop gain < 1. Ya, of course this circuit can be only a textbook example =)
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RobG
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Re: Trans-impedance amplifier
Reply #12 - Feb 23rd, 2013, 3:51pm
 
Vladislav D wrote on Feb 23rd, 2013, 3:47pm:
RobG wrote on Feb 23rd, 2013, 1:25pm:
Even if the polarity was correct Rd sets the bias current in M1 so the output voltage will be dependent on Vdd (a change in I(M1) will go through the feedback resistor since the input current doesn't change). The best use for this circuit is to send it to a competitor that you don't like.


I think it's quite difficult to say if this is a good or bad circuit without knowledge about the application where it is used. And the function it implements. Probably, it can be stable if loop gain < 1. Ya, of course this circuit can be only a textbook example =)

It would be good for sensing power supply variations Wink.

I'd be interested in where it came from because it looks incorrect to me unless M3 is a PMOS.
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Vladislav D
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Re: Trans-impedance amplifier
Reply #13 - Feb 24th, 2013, 2:42am
 
RobG wrote on Feb 23rd, 2013, 3:51pm:
I'd be interested in where it came from because it looks incorrect to me unless M3 is a PMOS.


I agree =)
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raja.cedt
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Re: Trans-impedance amplifier
Reply #14 - Feb 24th, 2013, 3:22am
 
Dear all,
it is a trans-impedance amplifier. I found from prof Bertan Bakkaloglu student thesis (page 11, fig 6).

http://repository.asu.edu/attachments/56952/content/LaFevre_asu_0010N_10920.pdf

@Vladislav D:yes i agree that +ve fb circuits works with <1 gain, but i don't think it has PVT insensitive property like -ve feedback. Can you point out me any design with +ve feedback, if you know.

Thanks,
Raj.  
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