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Getting Loop Gain of Boost Converter with UC3843 controller using SIMetrix softw (Read 33545 times)
kanmaedex
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Re: Getting Loop Gain of Boost Converter with UC3843 controller using SIMetrix softw
Reply #15 - Aug 04th, 2013, 4:39am
 
Hey analogspiceman thanks for the reply! I now have better grasp of how loop analysis should be done when using simulators. Sorry for the late reply, I've been busy the previous week. You seem to know a lot about this stuff. I improved my dc-dc converter last week by 'trial-and-error' method in the simulator and now my inductor is 15uH, my capacitor is at 2mF. I read your comment and you seem to know that this was a way to reduce the bad effects of the RHPZ (decrease L, increase C) awesome.
I just have some questions to ask:
1.) I found out in a website http://powerelectronics.com/power-management/understanding-right-half-plane-zero... about the RHPZ in boost converters. Is it possible to solve completely. Such that in the time-domain, the onset of the voltage dip for step increase of load current could not be seen anymore? or is it just only the reduction of that dip, and the settling - time that could be improved?
2.) Would you know of some literature that could be studied for compensating current-mode controlled converters like the boost converter?
Thanks!
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analogspiceman
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Re: Getting Loop Gain of Boost Converter with UC3843 controller using SIMetrix softw
Reply #16 - Aug 5th, 2013, 3:40am
 
If the inductor is small enough so that its current never goes continuous, even at the heaviest load, then the RHP zero simply disappears.  This is because then any change in inductor current called for can be achieved in one cycle.

When the inductor is relatively large so that its current is heavily continuous, then the RHP zero arises because in order to increase the output, duty cycle must be increased to build up inductor current, but this also immediately results in a smaller portion of the slowly building inductor current being directed to the output (so output current falls at first) with the increasing portion being dumped to ground in order to apply positive net voltage across the inductor.

A system with one or more RHP zeros is known as a non-minimum phase system (anything with pure delay falls into this category) and cannot be compensated via global feedback for loop gain bandwidth much past the frequency of the lowest RHP zero.

The article you linked includes a derivation of the expression for the frequency of the RHP zero: fz = Ro/Lb*(1-D)^2.  This only holds if the inductor current is continuous where simple duty cycle averaged voltages drive its current.  If the inductor current goes discontinuous, then a third system state is introduced, which alters the system's two-state dynamics, completely eliminating the RHP zero.

If a RHP zero exists under certain line/load conditions, this may not be a limit to system dynamics.  It is only necessary that the RHP zero not be allowed to fall low below somewhere slightly above the switching frequency so that its phase effects don't come into play before the normal PWM limits to loop gain bandwidth.

Rather than work with equations, you can use the simulator to see how the RHP zero moves and various system parameters are stepped (e.g. inductor value, input voltage, output load, etc.).  This zero is easy to see by plotting the ratio of current out of the boost diode divided by current through the boost inductor.
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kanmaedex
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Re: Getting Loop Gain of Boost Converter with UC3843 controller using SIMetrix softw
Reply #17 - Aug 5th, 2013, 8:59am
 
Thanks analogspiceman for the response I have another question regarding the RHPZ of the boost converter. I'm trying to study its implications.

Based on the link I previously posted I learned that it is physically manifested by that dip in output voltage upon step load increase. With the current specs of the boost converter I presented, that 'dip' doesn't seem to be much significant. I tried making a new boost converter, Input (11V to 19V), output is at 90V. I tried doing a 0A to 6A step-load and that downward dip during the occurrence of the step doesn't even reach 1V. Is that 'dip' caused by the RHPZ really that harmful in the industry? or is it more of the unstable oscillation that could propagate to your load that is the bad side effect of the RHPZ? Roughly how large could those voltage dips go due to a bad RHPZ?
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analogspiceman
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Re: Getting Loop Gain of Boost Converter with UC3843 controller using SIMetrix softw
Reply #18 - Aug 6th, 2013, 8:09am
 
A RHP zero in the transfer function is problematic because it is not possible to cancel it out with the compensation network.  The RHP zero in a boost converter can be dangerous because it moves around and, if not accounted for, can cause the converter to go unstable under heavy load where there is increased likelihood of failure.

Its mere existence is not the problem, but dealing inadequately with its possible effects might be.  Obtaining low output impedance beyond the general vicinity of the RHP zero cannot be done actively via feedback - it must be done passively via a large output capacitance (or some other means such as post regulation).  A large output capacitor can lower the size of load steps, but not the time to recovery.  Also, a larger output capacitor will subject the output to a larger energy dump if an overload collapses the output.
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kanmaedex
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Re: Getting Loop Gain of Boost Converter with UC3843 controller using SIMetrix softw
Reply #19 - Aug 7th, 2013, 10:16pm
 
Thanks. I see. So that's why increasing the output capacitor seems to improve the regulation (stable output). It has something to do with reducing the output impedance. A voltage source should have small output impedance but it's hard to get it past the RHPZ. Is there any physical reason to this?

Just like how the double pole of an LC filter is physically explained to be that frequency at which the impedance of the inductor and that of the capacitor equals, is there a physical explanation to what the RHPZ is in nature?
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analogspiceman
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Re: Getting Loop Gain of Boost Converter with UC3843 controller using SIMetrix softw
Reply #20 - Aug 26th, 2013, 11:13pm
 
In a boost converter, if the current is discontinuous, a small increase in input on-time has the effect of increasing output on-time.  However, if the current is continuous, a small increase in input on-time directly subtracts from output on-time and can actually make the next lump of charge delivered to the output decrease even though the duty cycle is increasing (which must ultimately and eventually after a certain delay, result in more output current).  It is this momentary "backwards" action (i.e., delay in response) that is a sure sign of a looming RHP zero.

Do you know what the pole and zero pattern is that approximates an ideal delay?  If not, since it is a basic EE course item, just look it up on the net.  The bottom line is that RHP zeros always are associated with nonrecoverable delay.  When coupled properly with symmetrically corresponding LHP poles, their effect on magnitude is exactly cancelled (resulting in a perfectly flat magnitude response, but with crashing phase - that is, an ideal delay).

Hope this helps.
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smpsguy
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Re: Getting Loop Gain of Boost Converter with UC3843 controller using SIMetrix softw
Reply #21 - Apr 24th, 2014, 2:24pm
 
analogspiceman,

May I request for a copy of your  Boost_LTspice_ac.asc and Boost_Simplis.sxsch files. I have tried to replicate your Boost_LTspice_ac file but with no success, the simulator kept complaining about the current source value.

thank,
Jesse
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