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How to choose Rp, L, C for cascode LNA? (Read 17941 times)
baab
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How to choose Rp, L, C for cascode LNA?
Jan 29th, 2014, 2:24am
 
Hi,
I am getting a problem in design a cascode LNA. With the help here and the tutorial in the link below, I chose value of Ls, Lg.
http://www.ece.ucsb.edu/yuegroup/Teaching/ECE219Winter2013/Lecture%20slides%20an...
However, are there some guides on how to choose the values for Rp, L, C in the circuit in the attached picture.
Thanks.
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Cascode_LNA.JPG
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natnoraa
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Re: How to choose Rp, L, C for cascode LNA?
Reply #1 - Jan 29th, 2014, 8:02am
 
Hi baab,

I may not be the best in this but let me give this a shot.

RLC would be your resonant tank.

Use omega^2 = 1/(LC), where omega = 2*pi*fc

Rp is there to modify your Q factor. Q = R(sqrt (C/L))
Typically this Rp is present in your inductor by converting the series resistance to parallel resistance (need source on this)

Someone please correct me if I am wrong

Natnoraa
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baab
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Re: How to choose Rp, L, C for cascode LNA?
Reply #2 - Jan 29th, 2014, 8:37am
 
Thank you, natnoraa.
I have just read somewhere that Rp is used to maximize voltage gain.
At resonance:
Av = - gm*Rp
If so, we should choose Rp as large as possible. However, I don't know constrains here.
For example, I am using TSMC 0.13 technology, I guess these are constrains:

- Space: resistor occupies a large area
- Noise: large resistance will introduce larger noise to the circuit

But as you said Rp is the resistance of my inductor in parallel form.
If so, Rp is fixed as L is fixed?

And from  omega^2 = 1/(LC), I can calculate the product LC. However, how to choose L, C now?
The only condition that I know now is LC = a calculated constant.

Ah, I just remember this.

 BW = fc/Q.

With given BW and fc, Q can be computed.
As you mentioned above:
Q = R(sqrt (C/L))

From two conditions, we can figure out the value of L, C.
Is that the right method?
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natnoraa
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Re: How to choose Rp, L, C for cascode LNA?
Reply #3 - Jan 29th, 2014, 5:06pm
 
Hi baab,

on a sidenote, maybe due to my newbie-lity, i've never touched on Av=-gm*Rp in RF circuits. The gain was always either S21 for small signal or Power Gain for large signal. lna works on small signal thus s21 but for pa it's power gain. This Rp is still a lil' confusing to me apart from using it for tuning Q.

yes resistor occupies larger area so usually I'll use RF choke as biasing for the drain or a quarter wavelength T-line. if L is fixed so will your Rp if you're using a foundry's pdk. in this case the big T.

I suppose your C has to be large enough for a high impedance so as to minimize leakage to vdd for your fundamental frequency (the inductor blocks it but if impedance from your C is low enough, signal will flow to Vdd). couple with your L, the theoretical impedance from your LC tank will be infinite.

Once you've set your C to have a large enough impedance [1/(omega*C)] = Z0, use the formula to find your required L. try to play around with the values to obtain the best results because of the Q factor of your LC tank.

I may be wrong. Someone please point to me if there's something conceptually wrong.

and, yep, i stand firm that you've to work on the two formulae to get the 3 values. However, please let me know if you know something more about the Rp or others may assist (:

natnoraa
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baab
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Re: How to choose Rp, L, C for cascode LNA?
Reply #4 - Feb 10th, 2014, 11:11pm
 
Thank you very much, natnoraa.

Would anyone please help me about this? I am getting stuck here.
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aaron_do
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Re: How to choose Rp, L, C for cascode LNA?
Reply #5 - Feb 11th, 2014, 1:15am
 
Hi baab,


the L and C form your tank. So the resonant frequency is found from ω2 = 1/LC.

1) C is made up of two parts. First the parasitic capacitance of your devices and the load. Second is however much additional capacitance you decide to add in parallel with the circuit. Often switchable capacitors are added to critical nodes in order to tune the resonant frequency (especially in a test chip). Otherwise, C should be as small as possible if you want the highest possible gain.

2) For the inductance, L, making it as large as possible while keeping the resonant frequency the same will generally get you the highest gain. You need to study about inductor design, and actually try to design inductors before you will really know the limitations here. But basically Rp = QωL, so the larger the L, the larger the Rp, and the higher your gain.

3) It should be obvious at this point that Rp is just the parasitic resistance of your inductor, but depending on the technology, the output resistance of your transistor might play some part. You don't want to deliberately add a resistor here. Also, your comment about large resistance = high noise is incorrect. you have to consider whether the resistance is in series or shunt to the signal path. If it is in series, then the more resistance, the higher the noise. But if it is in shunt, then the smaller the resistance, the higher the noise.

When I mentioned maximizing L, the goal was to get the highest possible gain. This will give you a nice big signal at the output that is insensitive to the next stage's noise. However, you don't want to saturate your LNA, so depending on your design, you may not want the highest possible gain anyway. Unfortunately, it isn't really possible to design the LNA without knowing what kind of load it is driving (i.e. the mixer).


regards,
Aaron
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baab
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Re: How to choose Rp, L, C for cascode LNA?
Reply #6 - Feb 12th, 2014, 12:20am
 
Thank you, Aaron, for the insight.

Is there a way to know the value of parasitic capacitance at the output node?
I think we can find the parasitic capacitance of the inductor by simulation it in separation but the total  parasitic capacitance is from various devices such as transistors, inductors...

The total C = C (from inductor) + C (from transistors) + ...
I can't figure out how to find out that value.




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aaron_do
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Re: How to choose Rp, L, C for cascode LNA?
Reply #7 - Feb 12th, 2014, 2:06am
 
For the device capacitances, you can try reading any analog IC text such as Razavi's CMOS analog IC Design textbook.


regards,
Aaron
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baab
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Re: How to choose Rp, L, C for cascode LNA?
Reply #8 - Feb 12th, 2014, 2:26am
 
Hi, Aaron.

Did you mean that parasitic capacitance at the output can't be simulated?
I mean that whether we have to read text to know its value.
I think I can find parasitic capacitance of the inductor but to find the parasitc capacitance of transistors at drain seems too complex to me.
I just found the model of transistor in BSIM but it is too complex, there are too many parameters.
Thanks.
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aaron_do
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Re: How to choose Rp, L, C for cascode LNA?
Reply #9 - Feb 12th, 2014, 7:10pm
 
Hi baab,


its easy to simulate the output capacitance. I guess the easiest method would be to run an S-parameter simulation, and convert the s-parameters to Y-parameters. For this simulation, you can replace the output inductor with a very large ideal inductor (1 H for example) so that it doesn't affect your result.


regards,
Aaron
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baab
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Re: How to choose Rp, L, C for cascode LNA?
Reply #10 - Feb 13th, 2014, 1:00am
 
Hello, Aaron.

Thanks. I just saw that in SP analysis, in the Direct Plot Form there is Z parameters, Zp.

I think we can use it (Z22) to compute output capacitance instead of S22. Is that right?

BTW, I followed the method here: http://www.ece.ucsb.edu/yuegroup/Teaching/ECE219Winter2013/Lecture%20slides%20an...

However, my S11 is not good at all. It is about -2.1dB. Could you suggest the way to fix it?
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Re: How to choose Rp, L, C for cascode LNA?
Reply #11 - Feb 13th, 2014, 1:59am
 
Hi baab,


if your S11 is not good then you just didn't match the amplifier properly. Use the smith chart to see how you can adjust your values. The smith chart is an extremely useful tool for RF design so you should try and learn it asap.

As for the output capacitance, Y22 is much more appropriate than Z22. I suggest you refer to "RF Circuit Design" by Chris Bowick if you want to understand these network parameters better.


regards,
Aaron
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baab
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Re: How to choose Rp, L, C for cascode LNA?
Reply #12 - Feb 13th, 2014, 2:31am
 
Thanks, Aaron.

I had the book and I read part of it. I will try to read up tonight.
I am a bit confused about input matching network.
I followed the method at the end of the link below.

http://www.ece.ucsb.edu/yuegroup/Teaching/ECE219Winter2013/Lecture%20slides%20an...

As for my understandning, here the "Power-Constrained Simultaneous Noise and Input Matching" technique is used.

Ls and Lg are used to match both noise and power simultaneously.
As in the link I calculated the values of Ls and Lg as in the step 7 and 8.

And indeed S11 has the right curve. Its lowest value is about -2dB at the interest frequency. However, the problem is that it is not good. I expected it is about -10dB.

My question:

1. Ls and Lg here forms an input matching network for both noise and power, right?
2. I simulated and computed the values of Ls and Lg as in the procedure mentioned in the link.
Then I resimulated and get S11 as above.
Does that mean the values Ls and Lg that I found is not good?
I see that it has the correct shape (the lowest S11 is at the interest frequency).

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Re: How to choose Rp, L, C for cascode LNA?
Reply #13 - Feb 13th, 2014, 3:02am
 
Hi baab,


since the lowest point is at the correct frequency, it means that your resonant frequency is correct. But your input resistance is clearly wrong. I haven't looked at the link but I'm guessing it says Rin = wTLs. You probably just used the wrong value for wT in your calculation...

You can use the smith chart to see exactly where you went wrong...


regards,
Aaron
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baab
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Re: How to choose Rp, L, C for cascode LNA?
Reply #14 - Feb 14th, 2014, 1:44am
 
Hi, Aaron.

Could you take a look at this and tell me where I am wrong or what I should do?
I know that I need to match input and output with the help of Smith Chart but it will be great if I know where I am wrong.

My reference: http://www.ece.ucsb.edu/yuegroup/Teaching/ECE219Winter2013/Lecture%20slides%20an...

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