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OP DC gain and AC gain (Read 5988 times)
uncle_ezra
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OP DC gain and AC gain
Nov 02nd, 2004, 5:28pm
 
Hi,

This might be a stupid question but shouldn't the DC gain of a OP be the same as the low frequency ac gain?  For the DC gain I am sweeping the non-inverting input from one rail to the other for a fixed inverting input.  Then I extract the DC gain from the slope of the curve.  For AC I supply a 1 V AC into the noninverting input and find the output response.

So am I doing something wrong?  Any suggestion will be appreciated.

Thanks
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Rajarshi Paul
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Re: OP DC gain and AC gain
Reply #1 - Nov 3rd, 2004, 10:58am
 
U r doing the correct thing but give a small ac signal of 1mv mag instead of 1V ac. Then perform an ac analysis. The ac gain gain u will obtain will be same as the slope of the DC sweep that you have talked about.
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ywguo
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Shanghai, PRC
Re: OP DC gain and AC gain
Reply #2 - Nov 5th, 2004, 5:50am
 
Hi,

I think 1V input for AC analysis is good, because the output is voltage gain when the input is 1V.

Dont worry. Smiley For SPICE-like simulator, 1V or 1mV has no difference for AC analysis. It dervies linear model through Operating Point analysis first, then run AC analysis based on that linear model. That is different from the transient analysis.

Best regards
Yawei
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sheldon
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Re: OP DC gain and AC gain
Reply #3 - Dec 10th, 2004, 7:19pm
 
Hi,

  Yes, the open loop gain measured by looking at the
slope of the dc analysis should match the results from low
frequency ac analysis. However, the test fixturing for the
dc test is complex. You might want to look at how ATE
machines measure dc open loop gain for the details.
Basically you need to put the op amp in a servo loop to
keep it in the linear region. There are also some other
simpler methods. The other issue is that you need to be
careful about the error tolerances in the dc analysis and
the dc stepping, since you are differentiating small errors
can create a lot of noise. BTW, you did not mention how
you are doing the ac measurement. If you are using
open loop measurements, there that could also be an
issue. Have you tried the approaches Ken suggests in
his book?  

                                                            Sheldon
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uncle_ezra
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Re: OP DC gain and AC gain
Reply #4 - Dec 14th, 2004, 8:22pm
 
Can you provide page number or outline the method?

Thanks
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Art Schaldenbrand
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Re: OP DC gain and AC gain
Reply #5 - Dec 18th, 2004, 5:24pm
 
Hi,

  Try section 3.4, Applications of AC Analyses, page 67
to 108. There is a good summary chart on page 107.  The
extensions for diffferential amplifiers are discussed in,
section 3.4.5, pages 113-119. BTW if memory serves,
stability analysis directly calculates loop gain, T. You can
use loop gain to calculate Open Loop Gain.
  Aopen,loop = Aclosed,loop + Tloop,gain

                                                   Best Regards,

                                                         ::)
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