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Measuring drain capacitance (Read 5683 times)
Croaker
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Measuring drain capacitance
Feb 21st, 2006, 10:01am
 
Hello, I'm wondering what the best way to measure a capacitance is...

Let's say I have a MOSFET with Vgs=0 and and Vds=0.5 (a DC source).  I want to figure out what the capacitance looking into the drain is.  I can run an operating point analysis and it'll give me values for Cdg, Cdb, & Cdd, but how do you suggest measuring the capacitance with a circuit?  Would you do something like an AC analysis and use v=i/(sC), knowing s=j*2*pi*f and measuring v and i to get C?  I tried this and the value I got seems way off.

I'll apologize in advance if this seems terribly elementary...it's for my own curiousity.

Thanks,
Marc
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skippy
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Re: Measuring drain capacitance
Reply #1 - Feb 21st, 2006, 11:46am
 
Draw the small signal equivalent circuit and make sure to account for all of the conductances and capacitances.  Note this analysis is only valid around the DC operating point of your circuit.  Note that the capacitance may be quite different at high versus low frequency due to the inversion capacitance for minority carriers.   I'd look in a graduate text like "Fundamentals of Modern VLSI Devices" for a discussion of all of the charge storage mechanisms.
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Croaker
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Re: Measuring drain capacitance
Reply #2 - Feb 21st, 2006, 12:45pm
 
skippy wrote on Feb 21st, 2006, 11:46am:
Draw the small signal equivalent circuit and make sure to account for all of the conductances and capacitances.  Note this analysis is only valid around the DC operating point of your circuit.  Note that the capacitance may be quite different at high versus low frequency due to the inversion capacitance for minority carriers.   I'd look in a graduate text like "Fundamentals of Modern VLSI Devices" for a discussion of all of the charge storage mechanisms.


I can't draw the small-signal model without already knowing the capacitances!  The exercise is to figure out what the capacitance is at the drain by applying an excitation.  I believe it should be around Cdb.  I'm trying to estimate the capacitive loading of an off MOSFET.  The MOSFET is the access device to a memory cell, e.g. DRAM.
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skippy
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Re: Measuring drain capacitance
Reply #3 - Feb 21st, 2006, 2:20pm
 
If you don't know the capacitances, how did you figure out Cdb?  Cgd and Cds would have a significant effect as well.  Don't forget the Miller effect as well.

By having the small-signal equations you can then find the model in which to fit your data.  Using some form of optimization, you can then get the capacitance values.  The conductances in your model should come right out from the DC i-v characteristic or a low frequency AC analysis.  The remaining unknowns should be your capacitances.  Don't forget to include your bias circuit in the calculations.  By changing these bias resistors, you can even choose which capacitance would be dominant in your measurement.

This is much like what your trying to do with your v=i/(sC) equation, but you would be accounting for more small-signal elements.

If you use a digital spectrum analyzer with a random noise source, you would see the frequency response all at once.

You could also  switch the device on and off and look at the resultant output waveform in the time domain.  Looking at the time delay, you may then figure out the switching Resistance and the output capacitance.
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Croaker
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Re: Measuring drain capacitance
Reply #4 - Feb 21st, 2006, 3:38pm
 
I figured out Cdb from the operating point analysis...not in a lab...just 'measuring' with the simulator. Cdb, Cgd are tiny compared to what I measured.  Miller effect shouldn't really matter since I am looking into the drain and gain is negligible for an 'off' device...  Er, if gain is neglibible for an off device (Vgs=0), the Miller cap looking into the drain is Cd(1+1/A) which I guess is then pretty big (A is small)...the opposite of what we normally see for an amplifier.

There is no bias circuit.  I used DC sources to setup the bias point for AC analysis.

Hmm, I suppose drain resistance could be throwing off my measured results.  The phase isn't -90 deg. as it should be for a pure cap, so there is resistance in there.  The resistance might be much bigger than the cap impedance.  What you said about the conductances makes sense.  See what they are at DC and account for them at other freqs.  Alternately I could just look at the mag/phase where phase is -90 deg. and then I'll know it's pure capacitance I am seeing.

Cheers,
Marc
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Cri Azzolini
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Re: Measuring drain capacitance
Reply #5 - Feb 22nd, 2006, 6:36am
 
Hi all,

in my opionion the fastest way to get the numerical value of the total drain capacitance is scroll at the DC operationg point of the device looking for Cdd.
Cdd is defined as: Cdd=d(Qdrain)/d(Vdrain): in other words it is the variation of the overall drain charge with respect to the drain(-to-ground) voltage. It should include all the capacitive effect from the drain to the ground!

Regards,
Cri
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Croaker
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Re: Measuring drain capacitance
Reply #6 - Feb 22nd, 2006, 6:51am
 
Cri Azzolini wrote on Feb 22nd, 2006, 6:36am:
Hi all,

in my opionion the fastest way to get the numerical value of the total drain capacitance is scroll at the DC operationg point of the device looking for Cdd.
Cdd is defined as: Cdd=d(Qdrain)/d(Vdrain): in other words it is the variation of the overall drain charge with respect to the drain(-to-ground) voltage. It should include all the capacitive effect from the drain to the ground!

Regards,
Cri


Hi Cri,

Yes, this is certainly a quick and easy way.  I just thought there might be a straightforward way to measure this via excitations.

Cheers,
Marc
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Geoffrey_Coram
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Re: Measuring drain capacitance
Reply #7 - Mar 28th, 2006, 9:09am
 
You should be able to put an ac magnitude on the voltage source you're using for the drain, and then measure the imaginary drain current. You are correct that the drain (and source and gate) resistances will affect the results.  The cdd reported by the simulator is a partial derivative with respect to the internal drain voltage, assuming the other voltages are held fixed.  So, not only is the variation in the external drain voltage different from the internal drain, the internal source voltage is not fixed if there is a source resistor.
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