The Designer's Guide Community
Forum
Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register. Please follow the Forum guidelines.
Jul 16th, 2024, 9:33pm
Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
digital gate phase noise sensitivity to duty cycle (Read 991 times)
borisk
New Member
*
Offline



Posts: 6

digital gate phase noise sensitivity to duty cycle
Jan 29th, 2008, 4:57pm
 
All,

when simulating the output phase noise added by a digital gate, I see a strong dependence on the clock duty cycle.  Is this expected behavior?

For instance, if the input to a digital gate is 50%-50% duty cycle the output phase noise is low, whereas it goes up by 20dB or more for a 1/60%-59/60% duty cycle.

I can explain this by the fact that the input spectrum changes as the duty cycle changes, i.e., (with decreasing pulse width, the amplitude of the fundamental will decrease),
thus in terms of an SNR it would appear the be worse --> higher phase noise.

This however doesn't intuitively make sense when one is only concerned with edges (freq/jitter between successive edges).  Also, if viewed as sampling noise, then the convolution
of baseband noise by a lower signal amplitude should yield the same phase noise as noise also should get scaled in amplitude.  


Any ideas?
Back to top
 
 
View Profile   IP Logged
Frank Wiedmann
Community Fellow
*****
Offline



Posts: 678
Munich, Germany
Re: digital gate phase noise sensitivity to duty c
Reply #1 - Jan 29th, 2008, 11:37pm
 
Normal, time-averaged phase noise results can be difficult to interpret when one is really interested in jitter. I always use the pnoise analysis with "Noise Type: jitter" in such cases.
Back to top
 
 
View Profile WWW   IP Logged
borisk
New Member
*
Offline



Posts: 6

Re: digital gate phase noise sensitivity to duty c
Reply #2 - Jan 30th, 2008, 8:55am
 
Frank,

point taken, but I do need the phase noise as I'm really looking for the PFD phase noise that I need for the PLL linear noise model.  

What I noticed in the pnoise form is that noise type can be set to sources/jitter/modulated...  My initial results were with type=sources.

When I set it to modulated and look at the PM component, the overall result is better - more like what I expect.  I am not sure whether this is really what I need because I come from HSPICE RF/ELDO RF land, so I'm ramping up on Spectre RF particulars.

If any ideas, please fire away!

Thanks,

Boris
Back to top
 
 
View Profile   IP Logged
Frank Wiedmann
Community Fellow
*****
Offline



Posts: 678
Munich, Germany
Re: digital gate phase noise sensitivity to duty c
Reply #3 - Jan 30th, 2008, 11:07pm
 
Well, if it's really jitter you are trying to model with the "PFD phase noise", you could also simulate with "Noise Type: jitter" and convert time to phase by multiplying with 2πf. For details about strobed or timedomain noise, please see http://www.designers-guide.org/Analysis/sc-filters.pdf. Pnoise jitter analysis is a special case of pnoise timedomain analysis, where you specify the timepoint by giving a threshold value for the signal.
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: Jan 31st, 2008, 1:20am by Frank Wiedmann »  
View Profile WWW   IP Logged
borisk
New Member
*
Offline



Posts: 6

Re: digital gate phase noise sensitivity to duty c
Reply #4 - Jan 31st, 2008, 11:37am
 
Thanks Frank.  I'll take a look at that.

Back to top
 
 
View Profile   IP Logged
Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
Copyright 2002-2024 Designer’s Guide Consulting, Inc. Designer’s Guide® is a registered trademark of Designer’s Guide Consulting, Inc. All rights reserved. Send comments or questions to editor@designers-guide.org. Consider submitting a paper or model.