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Substrate noise book (Read 5835 times)
gary197
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Substrate noise book
Jul 15th, 2008, 3:12pm
 
I am trying to buy a book on substrate noise coupling and I wander if anybody has any good/bad experiences with any books.  I am targeting the book "Noise Coupling in Integrated Circuits: A Practical Approach to Analysis, Modeling, and Suppression" which I found listed on Amazon.com.  Does anybody own it and can provide me some feedback?  It also come with a software simulation tool so I'm interested in some feedback on that one too.  I appreciate any feedback/comments/advice about this book or other books on this topic.

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loose-electron
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Re: Substrate noise book
Reply #1 - Jul 15th, 2008, 5:15pm
 
I just looked at the web site for the book, and I was not impressed. It is self published and looking through the excerpts the message is pretty similar about parasitic coupling throughout.

No peer review, and my first read thru of excerpts found some statements that I question rather strongly.

Also, knowing how noise couples in the substrate is very old news and doesnt help solve the problem. A practical approach to noise problems in chips has been writtenup by a number of authors. I did a 2 part series for Electronic Design a few years back.

You can find links here to the articles:
http://www.effectiveelectrons.com/JerryTwomey.htm

Thats a practical global approach to the issue.
(and yes, I am biased!  ;D)

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Jerry Twomey
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Contract IC-PCB-System Design - Analog, Mixed Signal, RF & Medical
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gary197
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Re: Substrate noise book
Reply #2 - Jul 16th, 2008, 9:19am
 
Thank you Jerry for looking and commenting on this book.  I did not know there is an excerpt (it is not shown on amazon.com listing) but, since you mentioned it, I searched for the book web site and found it (describing the noise reception by various devices) at http://www.noisecoupling.com .  

I agree the description of parasitic coupling is too detailed, but I find it interesting probably because I am still on a learning curve.  

I asked for more excerpts through the contact form, and now there are 3 more posted.  The third and fourth ones look like practical approaches (if you have time please give me your feedback).  

You mentioned the book is self published, but I looked at the author bio and is pretty strong (Ph.D. in noise coupling at Stanford, design experience, training seminars, patents …)  so I think the book has some chances to be good.  

Also, what do you think about the ChipQuake simulation software that comes with the book.  It has the datasheet and user guide on the web site.
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loose-electron
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Re: Substrate noise book
Reply #3 - Jul 28th, 2008, 1:18pm
 
Not to get the Ph.D. alumni from anyplace ticked off but, academic credentials really don't mean that the person is going to be a good author or even knowledgable on a topic. No guarantees there, sorry.

Key thing on substrate noise is that 99% of what people call "substrate noise" is from other coupling paths (power ground impedance, capacitive, bias lines, etc.) and gets used as the "magical noise source" when people dont quickly see where the noise is coupled in from.
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Jerry Twomey
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Contract IC-PCB-System Design - Analog, Mixed Signal, RF & Medical
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gary197
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Re: Substrate noise book
Reply #4 - Jul 29th, 2008, 4:26pm
 
Thank you Jerry for your response.  I actually got the book during this time, and I find it very clear and reader friendly.  The ChipQuake software simulates the chip/package/PCB noise coupling in about 30 seconds on my Windows XP computer, and it came free to use without any limited time expiration.  
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Terence
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Re: Substrate noise book
Reply #5 - Sep 3rd, 2008, 4:59am
 
Hi Gary,

I think you have been using ChipQuake for a while. Are you happy about the tool?  :)

Is it possible to use ChipQuake to evaluate the isolation effects of various guard-ring type such like p+, n+, DNW, and deep trench? Thanks!

Regards,
Terence
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gary197
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Re: Substrate noise book
Reply #6 - Sep 11th, 2008, 12:52pm
 
Hi Terence,

ChipQuake supports two types of guard rings, shunting (p+ diffusion in p-substrate) and high resistive (also known as "moat" in some technology manuals).  Since this is an early planning tool not a layout extraction tool, the electrical parameters for the guard rings need to be calculated from the geometry and design guide parameters and then entered in the simulator.  The 2D and 3D noise mapping show the improvement of noise coupled when playing around with guard rings types and sizes.  So far I found ChipQuake a nice and handy tool for learning how noise couples function of a variety of factors on the chip, package, and PCB.
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