The Designer's Guide Community
Forum
Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register. Please follow the Forum guidelines.
Aug 19th, 2024, 8:17pm
Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
method to decrease Vth of pMOS? (Read 6243 times)
trashbox
Community Member
***
Offline



Posts: 66

method to decrease Vth of pMOS?
Nov 25th, 2008, 4:15am
 
I'm design a large output current linear LDO with pMOS as pass element and want to save area by using small W/L pMOS.

Is there any method to decrease pMOS Vth? Thanks!

Trashbox
Back to top
 
 
View Profile   IP Logged
ACWWong
Community Fellow
*****
Offline



Posts: 539
Oxford, UK
Re: method to decrease Vth of pMOS?
Reply #1 - Nov 25th, 2008, 6:58am
 
you could bias the back gate at ground...
Back to top
 
 
View Profile   IP Logged
HdrChopper
Community Fellow
*****
Offline



Posts: 493

Re: method to decrease Vth of pMOS?
Reply #2 - Nov 25th, 2008, 6:44pm
 
Hi,

You could try biasing the body of the pass transitor about 200mv below the supply voltage.

What is the min drop out you need for you app? Depending on the drop out the pass transistor migth not need to be super large. You could eventually allow the pass transistor to enter into triode region without major consequences since usually the pass transistor stage does not gain too much, even when working in sat region (since usually the load is very small to achieve large gains).

Hope this helps
Tosei
Back to top
 
 

Keep it simple
View Profile   IP Logged
trashbox
Community Member
***
Offline



Posts: 66

Re: method to decrease Vth of pMOS?
Reply #3 - Nov 26th, 2008, 2:00am
 
Hi ACWWong!
You idea inspires me! But it really dangerous. Haha..

Hi Tosei!
Thanks very much for your replying my questions always.I will try it. Smiley

Regards,
William
Back to top
 
 
View Profile   IP Logged
raja.cedt
Senior Fellow
******
Offline



Posts: 1516
Germany
Re: method to decrease Vth of pMOS?
Reply #4 - Nov 26th, 2008, 9:46pm
 
hi tosei,
           i have a question regarding u r ans. from gain point of view it doesn't matter whether pass transistor is working in sat or triode(as you said,provided ldo is heavyly loaded),but from supply noise point of view if it is triode it will pass most of the noise to output. correct me if i  ma wrong.
hi trashbox,
                   the following paper might help you,they have  implemented same idea(more or less using body terminal,but its prone to forward biasing)

36 IEEE JOURNAL OF SOLID-STATE CIRCUITS, VOL. 33, NO. 1, JANUARY 1998
A Low-Voltage, Low Quiescent Current,Low Drop-Out Regulator
Gabriel A. Rincon-Mora, Member, IEEE, and Phillip E. Allen, Fellow, IEEE
Back to top
 
 
View Profile WWW raja.sekhar86   IP Logged
HdrChopper
Community Fellow
*****
Offline



Posts: 493

Re: method to decrease Vth of pMOS?
Reply #5 - Nov 27th, 2008, 3:52am
 
Hi raja,

That is correct and a very well known trade off: minimum drop out voltage vs PSRR. If the pass transistor goes into triode region then PSRR is degraded.
My answer just pointed to optimize the minimum operation supply voltage withouth considering PSRR issues.

Regards
Tosei
Back to top
 
 

Keep it simple
View Profile   IP Logged
raja.cedt
Senior Fellow
******
Offline



Posts: 1516
Germany
Re: method to decrease Vth of pMOS?
Reply #6 - Nov 27th, 2008, 9:14pm
 
hi tosie,
           thanks for your answer.can please tell me is there any advantage of pass transistor in triode apart from low drop(may be i guess stability may improve).can you give any reference based on this?
Thank you.
Back to top
 
 
View Profile WWW raja.sekhar86   IP Logged
loose-electron
Senior Fellow
******
Offline

Best Design Tool =
Capable Designers

Posts: 1638
San Diego California
Re: method to decrease Vth of pMOS?
Reply #7 - Dec 5th, 2008, 1:48pm
 
In a semi serious suggestion:

Change the threshold implant doping density in the channel, under the gate. It is generally the ion implant stage after after photo resist for the transistor body and prior to the gate polysilicon. Higher temperature or longer implant time period should result in a lower threshold voltage.

Cheesy

Now the big question - Can you control the foundry?  ;D
-- Jerry
Back to top
 
 

Jerry Twomey
www.effectiveelectrons.com
Read My Electronic Design Column Here
Contract IC-PCB-System Design - Analog, Mixed Signal, RF & Medical
View Profile WWW   IP Logged
PalmRunner
New Member
*
Offline



Posts: 9

Re: method to decrease Vth of pMOS?
Reply #8 - Dec 5th, 2008, 2:55pm
 
Possible way to decrease the threshold voltage is to connect the bulk to the gate. This is so the called DTMOS device (Dynamic Threshold MOS). You have to be careful with the operating point of such device, because the bulk is slightly forward biased.

Regards,
PalmRunner
Back to top
 
 

------------
I know enough to know I don't know enough.
View Profile WWW   IP Logged
SATurn
Community Member
***
Offline



Posts: 53

Re: method to decrease Vth of pMOS?
Reply #9 - Dec 10th, 2008, 2:06pm
 
Hello,

Well, the must effective way is to bias the bulk of the transistors. In a PMOS device, by reducing the bulk voltage you can reduce the device VTH. Ofcourse you need to make sure that the SB junction will not be forwarded. The other possibility is increasing the length of transistor that can help to reduce the VTH a little bit (revese short channel effect).


SATurn
Back to top
 
 
View Profile   IP Logged
Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
Copyright 2002-2024 Designer’s Guide Consulting, Inc. Designer’s Guide® is a registered trademark of Designer’s Guide Consulting, Inc. All rights reserved. Send comments or questions to editor@designers-guide.org. Consider submitting a paper or model.