The Designer's Guide Community
Forum
Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register. Please follow the Forum guidelines.
Aug 16th, 2024, 10:18am
Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
a question about PNoise simulation (Read 3561 times)
uu@uk
Junior Member
**
Offline



Posts: 17

a question about PNoise simulation
Jun 16th, 2009, 2:39pm
 
Hi all,

I am running Pnoise simulations for a differential buffer driven by a clock signal. The first I did is 1GHz(beat frequency in PSS) and I also ran another 125MHz(beat frequency in PSS). I got the almost the same phase noise plot(they are relative to 1GHz and 125MHz carrier frequency seperateley).

However, the phase noise formula is 10log(2KT*f0^2/(P*delf^2)) (refer to Hajimiri's paper). According to the above formula(f0 is carrier frequency), is it phase noise at a small carrier frequency could be better? Anyone could explain it? Thanks a lot.

Back to top
 
 
View Profile   IP Logged
pancho_hideboo
Senior Fellow
******
Offline



Posts: 1424
Real Homeless
Re: a question about PNoise simulation
Reply #1 - Jun 16th, 2009, 4:54pm
 
uu@uk wrote on Jun 16th, 2009, 2:39pm:
However, the phase noise formula is 10log(2KT*f0^2/(P*delf^2)) (refer to Hajimiri's paper).
According to the above formula(f0 is carrier frequency), is it phase noise at a small carrier frequency could be better?
This assumed resonator around f0.
Derive this formula by yourself.
Is there resonator in your circuits ?
Back to top
 
 
View Profile WWW Top+Secret Top+Secret   IP Logged
uu@uk
Junior Member
**
Offline



Posts: 17

Re: a question about PNoise simulation
Reply #2 - Jun 16th, 2009, 5:17pm
 
Hi,

NO! there is no resonator in my circuit.  It is just a differential in and differential out current steering amplifier. It is a driven circuit(driven by rail to rail clk signal) but not autonomous cuitcuit. So I suspect the phase noise formula I wrote down(it is for oscillator) is applicable in this case.
Back to top
 
 
View Profile   IP Logged
pancho_hideboo
Senior Fellow
******
Offline



Posts: 1424
Real Homeless
Re: a question about PNoise simulation
Reply #3 - Jun 16th, 2009, 5:25pm
 
uu@uk wrote on Jun 16th, 2009, 5:17pm:
NO! there is no resonator in my circuit.
I know it.
What I want to say is "Don't use formula blindly".

uu@uk wrote on Jun 16th, 2009, 5:17pm:
So I suspect the phase noise formula I wrote down(it is for oscillator) is applicable in this case.
How to write down ?
Show me your derivation process.
Back to top
 
 
View Profile WWW Top+Secret Top+Secret   IP Logged
uu@uk
Junior Member
**
Offline



Posts: 17

Re: a question about PNoise simulation
Reply #4 - Jun 16th, 2009, 7:26pm
 
Hi,

you are right. The f0 there is coming out because of the L and C oscillating freqeuncy. It does not make sense to use that formula to predict the driven circuit. I made a mistake there.

This is the current steering circuit. So the current charge the capacitor at the output is the same even in those two frequency input clock signal. Then I think the edge rate at the crossing point would not be different(I also run the simulation to look at that). Then the rms jitter(hence phase noise) should not be too much different even at 125MHz and 1GHz.

Thanks for pointing out the mistake.

Back to top
 
 
View Profile   IP Logged
pancho_hideboo
Senior Fellow
******
Offline



Posts: 1424
Real Homeless
Re: a question about PNoise simulation
Reply #5 - Jun 16th, 2009, 8:27pm
 
uu@uk wrote on Jun 16th, 2009, 7:26pm:
The f0 there is coming out because of the L and C oscillating freqeuncy.
It seems you don't still understand this formula correctly.
In this formula, an important factor is bandwidth of loaded resonator which is determined by value of f0.
Value of f0 itself is not important.
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: Jun 17th, 2009, 6:57am by pancho_hideboo »  
View Profile WWW Top+Secret Top+Secret   IP Logged
Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
Copyright 2002-2024 Designer’s Guide Consulting, Inc. Designer’s Guide® is a registered trademark of Designer’s Guide Consulting, Inc. All rights reserved. Send comments or questions to editor@designers-guide.org. Consider submitting a paper or model.