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Ringing Frequency (Read 3181 times)
raja.cedt
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Ringing Frequency
Aug 28th, 2009, 3:08am
 
hi,
   i have a system with some phase margin and i am getting some ringing in the step response, now if i increase system PM, then i know that no of rings will decrease..but how about frequency of ringing?

thanks,
Rajasekhar.
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buddypoor
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Re: Ringing Frequency
Reply #1 - Aug 28th, 2009, 3:46am
 
raja.cedt wrote on Aug 28th, 2009, 3:08am:
hi,
   i have a system with some phase margin and i am getting some ringing in the step response, now if i increase system PM, then i know that no of rings will decrease..but how about frequency of ringing?
thanks,
Rajasekhar.


1.) Why do you expect no decrease in ringing ? Normally, ringing becomes smaller with increased PM.
2.) Frequency of ringing is app. identical to the unity gain frequency of the loop gain. Thus, it depends on the method of PM increase which you are going to apply.
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LvW (buddypoor: In memory of the great late Buddy Rich)
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bharat
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Re: Ringing Frequency
Reply #2 - Aug 31st, 2009, 1:41am
 
Rajasekhar,
I am reading your question as "but how about frequency at the ringing"?

1) You sweep the AC freq at the input and (where you are giving step response) and see the output in freq domain. The freq at which max O/P is seen is the freq of trouble where you are seeing the ringing. Let's say that freq is 250MHz. Mind it, it won't be regular AC sims of breaking the loop rather colsed loop simulation.
To verify the same in time domain run the transient simulation
and sweep the freq in the neighborhood of 240Mhz-260Mhz ( what you got in the freq response) of sinusoidal input for small amplitude of say 100mV, you may see that O/P is ringing with larger amplitude than the I/P is given.

Alternatively; If you can sweep the freq of sinusoidal input for small amplitude of say 100mV, you may see that O/P is ringing with larger amplitude that the I/P is given. Though this is tedious and you have to sweep the frequency of much larger range.

Regards,
-Bharat

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raja.cedt
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Re: Ringing Frequency
Reply #3 - Aug 31st, 2009, 4:22am
 
hi all,
       tx for your inputs

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yvkrishna
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Re: Ringing Frequency
Reply #4 - Aug 31st, 2009, 9:50pm
 
hi raja,

If we consider a second order sys the damping freq is given by  Wd = Wn*sqrt(1-zeta^2)

so the ringing freq reduces with increase in zeta. As one can observe that zeta prop. to PM the ringing freq also decreases with increase of PM.

Thanks
vamshi
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raja.cedt
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Re: Ringing Frequency
Reply #5 - Sep 1st, 2009, 8:12pm
 
hi vamsi,
            i am asking for any general system...first there is damping factor for above 2nd order....and as buddy poor said  ringing frequency depends on the ugb..so strongly it depends on how did you compensate....for example in case of dominate pole compensation ugb will decrease so ringing frequency also decreases
thanks,
Rajasekhar.
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