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[Help] pnoise analysis of switched capacitor SHA (Read 8141 times)
BackerShu
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[Help] pnoise analysis of switched capacitor SHA
Dec 22nd, 2009, 6:53am
 
I want to use the pnoise (spectreRF) to analyse the noise of a Switched-Capacitor SH Circuit in Pipelined ADC. Fig 1 in the attachment shows the testbench I set up. The operation frequency CKSH is 50MHz. Vsource and ideal_balun are used to generate the differential signal and the R, C connnect to the output of SHA are the equivalent loads.
Fisrt, I do pss+pac+poise analysis
the Vsource is set as follows:
VIN (net021 GNDA) vsource dc=0 type=dc pacmag=1
I use the "Direct Plot" to display the results which are shown in Fig2. There're 2 things I have confusion in this result.

1. The tranfer function shows that the low frequency voltage gain is only 0.5, (Both pac and pnoise analysis). But the exact voltage of a SHA circuit should be about 1. Why?
  I tried doing only pss analysis to see whether the signal is attenuated by 6dB. This time I set the Vsource and pss as:
VIN (net021 GNDA) vsource dc=0 type=sine freq=5M ampl=300m
pss pss fund=5M harms=10 errpreset=conservative tstab=400n maxacfreq=6G annotate=status
Fig 3 and Fig 4 shows the results I got.
Fig 3 shows the harmonic of three differential signals: (net021 GNDA) which is the Vsource, (VINP VINN) which is the output of ideal_balun, (VOP VON) which is output of SHA. There is exactly a 6dB attenuation at the output. I don't know why?
Fig 4 is the time-dominal results of pss. The top graph contains the differential input and output signal and it shows that the output follows the input signal very well (both are 288mV as the cursors show). So why comes 6dB attenuation??

2. In Fig 2, the input noise is 6dB larger than the output noise (It's must due to the attenuation ), otherwise they're expexted to be almost the same for the SH circuit with gain 1. Another thing confused me in Fig 2 is the spectrum peak at 100MHz, 2X the clock frequency.
I know that spectrum folding could cause this kind of peak naturally, but shouldn't the peak locate at 0.5X clock frequency, i.e 25MHz in this case? or I have a misunderstanding? please let me know.

Some additional information may help to locate the problem. The SH adopts flip-around architecture and I have analysed the SH  by .tran analysis and do FFT in matlab, the results shows that the dynamic performance of the SH meet the specification. Fig 5 shows the result of tran analysis. So it seems there is little chance that somehing is wrong with circuit itself and probably something is uncorrect in my noise simulation.

I'm sorry the post is kind of long, I just want to describe the problem clearly. Hope I did it.
Thanks to your guys and Merry Chirstmas in advance.
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Ken Kundert
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Re: [Help] pnoise analysis of switched capacitor SHA
Reply #1 - Dec 22nd, 2009, 8:06am
 
It is probably because your output has a 50% duty cycle. You perceive the gain to be 1 because the peaks on the output are the same as the peaks on the input, but Spectre sees that the signal is missing half the time.

-Ken
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BackerShu
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Re: [Help] pnoise analysis of switched capacitor SHA
Reply #2 - Dec 22nd, 2009, 7:56pm
 
Thank you Ken!

If so, may I assume that the output noise is reasonable and the input noise just doesn't make sense beacuse it's ralted to the signal duty. I should integrate the output noise and calculate the input-referred noise myself.


Again the sencond confusion. Could someone explain to me the spectrum peak at 100MHz.Is it relted to the spectrum folding as I understand so far?
I'm not sure if the ENBW is higher than 100MHz in my case.(I just know some thing about ENBW, like the ENBW of single-pole system which is about 0.5*pi*BW. I'm searching some material about the ENBW of Pipeline ADC, some reference recommended by your guys would be appreciated.)
If 100MHz is in the ENBW in my case,  the integrated noise could be very large.

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Ken Kundert
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Re: [Help] pnoise analysis of switched capacitor SHA
Reply #3 - Dec 23rd, 2009, 12:39am
 
I think you are being unfair when you say that the input referred noise makes no sense. It makes perfect sense once you realize that the simulator is looking at the entire signal, as you instructed it to, and not just the peaks. You might want to take a look at http://www.designers-guide.org/Analysis/sc-filters.pdf. It gives you background information on these types of simulations that should be helpful.

I suspect the noise peak at 100MHz is due to flicker noise being mixed up by the clock. However, it would be easy for you to check that by looking at the noise contributions. If you want help understanding why the peak falls at twice the clock, you should probably include a schematic. But be aware that such peaks probably exist at many of the harmonics of the clock, but that they are so narrow that they often do not show up in the result because you are simply analysing the circuit at too few frequencies. To examine this phenomenon, you might want to simulate with a linear frequency sweep and make sure you include points at each of the harmonics.

-Ken
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BackerShu
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Re: [Help] pnoise analysis of switched capacitor SHA
Reply #4 - Dec 27th, 2009, 6:36am
 
Thank you Ken!

I reread the paper and make some modifiction to my original testbench, a sh without hidden state(mentioned in the paper) is introduced to sample the output of the real SH circuit. So the testbench goes to Fig 1 in the attchment. I tried the linear frequency sweep and set the pss and pnoise simulation as follows.
pss  pss  fund=50M  harms=0  errpreset=moderate  tstab=400n
+    saveinit=yes  tstabmethod=gear2only  maxacfreq=3G  annotate=status
pnoise  (  VOP  VON  )  pnoise  start=0.5M  stop=300M  step=0.5M
+       maxsideband=10  iprobe=VIN  refsideband=0  annotate=status

and the result in Fig2 and Fig 3 show that
1) the transfer function becoms 1 in low frequency and is a sin(x)/x function through the frequency range as expected. So the previous gain result is due to the signal duty indeed.
2) When linear sweep the frequency, the spetrum peak in output noise curve has gone but there is still a peak in input noise curve and this time it moves to the frequency  of 50MHz (1X the clock frequency) . When log sweep the frequcy, the spetrum peak in output noise curve has gone but there is still a peak in input noise curve and this time it moves to the frequency  of 100MHz (2X the clock frequency) .

Three points here confuse me
a. Why the spectrum peak in the output noise disappear but the the peak in the input noise spectrum remain? It seems related to the ideal sh that I added for test. Since I resimulated the testbench without ideal sh and the input/output noise curve both have peaks at 100MHz(2X the clock frequency).
b. Why linear sweep the frequency and log sweep the frequency got the peak at the different frequency?
c. I tried to find something between the Input/Output noise curve and the gain curve at the peak point. It shows that at 50MHz
input noise(IN): 3.16e-6 V2 /Hz
output noise(ON): 6.43e-22 V2/Hz
gain(G):            9.2e-6
They don't meet the formula IN=ON/G2,in fact ON/2 is about 760e-6 V2/Hz.Shouldn't they meet the formula because in the frequency area without peak IN is almost the same with ON, and approximatly meet the formula.


3) The noise summary is shown in Fig 3 and tells that flicker noise contributes 1.68 percent. But how to check whethet the peak is caused by  flicker noise or not? Please give me some tips.
As expected the noise are almost controbuted by the MOS transistor in the OTA of the SH. Fig 4 shows the structue of the OTA--folded cascode with hybrid cascode compensation. some trivial thing is ommitted for simplification.

4) Since the models for simulation are too large to upload, I attach the netlist only (File tb_SHA_noise.net) to help locate the problem.

--BackerShu

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« Last Edit: Dec 27th, 2009, 6:20pm by BackerShu »  
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BackerShu
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Re: [Help] pnoise analysis of switched capacitor SHA
Reply #5 - Dec 27th, 2009, 6:19pm
 
Addtion: I resimulate the linear frequency sweep pnoise and log frequency sweep pnoise  analysis. The results keep the same as mentioned above. But there are warnings when doing linear sweep frequency at 50MHz, 100MHz, 150MHz and 200MHz(frequency range:0.5MHz~200MHz) tell that "Infinite flicker noise is ignored. " When doing the log frequency sweep, the exact warning only happend at the end of the analysis. Does this hint that
1) the peak is related with the flicker noise?(I enlarge the input noise spectrum curve, there are also peak at 100MHz and 150MHz when doing linear frequency sweep, they'are much lower than that at 50MHz, so we can't see them in original curve. But in the curve of log  frequency sweep, there is only one peak at 100MHz )
2) the peak locate at different frequency because in log frequency sweeping the frequency points 50MHz, 100MHz and 150MHz are not analysed directly?
If so, what should I do when I calculate the integrated noise?

By the way. I do the calculation that I did in last post at the peak position. And this time they meet the formula. This happens?
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Ken Kundert
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Re: [Help] pnoise analysis of switched capacitor SHA
Reply #6 - Dec 27th, 2009, 11:54pm
 
The flicker noise is mixed up to multiples of the clock frequency, creating spikes every 50MHz. However, these spikes are very narrow. Furthermore, if you evaluate at exact multiples of the clock frequency, the flicker noise would be infinite, and so is ignored. The frequency sweeps you are using are dramatically undersampling these spikes, so sometimes you see them, and sometimes you do not. If you want to examine them closely, sweep k×f0±Δf, where k×f0 is some harmonic of the clock frequency, and Δf is small enough to see the flicker noise, say 100kHz.

The cause of peaks in the input referred noise that occur when there is no peak in the output noise are due to nulls in the gain. Since the gain is going to zero at these frequencies, the input referred noise must go to infinity in order to see a finite output noise.

-Ken
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Re: [Help] pnoise analysis of switched capacitor SHA
Reply #7 - Dec 28th, 2009, 8:55am
 
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