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An question about an open-loop comparator (Read 1586 times)
ray_wang
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An question about an open-loop comparator
Jan 26th, 2010, 4:26am
 
Dear all,
   I use an differential-to-single open-loop amplifer with an inverter chain as a comparator. The reason why I don't use a dynamic comparator is that this comparator needs to work continuously.
   However, I found that even if the input is changing slowly (you can see from the pic, with the inverter chain delay being at most 500ps), there would be some "overshoot". I mean, vinn must be smaller than vinp by 21mV for the output to change. Moreover, this 21mV is process-dependant, which introduces significant error in my design. I want to reduce that 21mV to less than 2mV.
   Is there anybody familiar with this kind of comparator helping me? I also want to know if there is some discussion/paper/thesis on this comparator or some better structure.
   Your comment is appeciated.
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Mayank
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Re: An question about an open-loop comparator
Reply #1 - Jan 27th, 2010, 3:40am
 
Hi,
      Seems like systematic offset b/w load transistors of the diff-2-single ended opamp. Did you check that ?  Also, why not use a cross coupled Level-Shifter kinda topology instead of  a D2SE opamp. here inverter chain has an inherent delay of 500ps. Cross-Coupled would be faster & you will get differential output signals directly.

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boe
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Re: An question about an open-loop comparator
Reply #2 - Jan 28th, 2010, 10:25am
 
ray_wang,
I expect that some of your "error" is simply comparator delay.
BOE
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loose-electron
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Re: An question about an open-loop comparator
Reply #3 - Jan 28th, 2010, 5:26pm
 
Very strange architecture.

Why dont you consider some more conventional approaches?
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ray_wang
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Re: An question about an open-loop comparator
Reply #4 - Jan 31st, 2010, 2:42am
 
Hi, Mayank
   This comparator is used in an feedback loop to form an relaxation oscillator and I use the inverter chain here just to avoid metastability. And I don't think its contribution to the overall delay is significant. Here I only want to increase the speed of the open-loop opamp.
   I searched "cross coupled Level-Shifter", but I did not get what I desired. Could you provide more details?    
   After posting, I randomly swept the transistors' size and got a much better result. And I found that the result is even worse if I use PMOS input diff-pair. But to be frank, I still don't know exactly the mechanism about that "overshooting".  :-/

To BOE,
   You are right, but I believe there is systematic delay for the comparator, not just common intrinsic delay, since 2ns is too large for 0.18um devices.

To loose-electron,
   I don't know what "conventional approaches" are, can you provide me with information on continously-working fast comparator?

Thank you for your comment. Smiley
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loose-electron
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Re: An question about an open-loop comparator
Reply #5 - Jan 31st, 2010, 9:47am
 
ray_wang wrote on Jan 31st, 2010, 2:42am:
To loose-electron,
   I don't know what "conventional approaches" are, can you provide me with information on continously-working fast comparator?

Thank you for your comment. Smiley



Take a look at this -

http://ece-classweb.ucsd.edu/winter10/ece264c/Comparator_Supplemental.pdf
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ray_wang
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Re: An question about an open-loop comparator
Reply #6 - Feb 5th, 2010, 8:27am
 
Thank you for your help!
loose-electron wrote on Jan 31st, 2010, 9:47am:
ray_wang wrote on Jan 31st, 2010, 2:42am:
To loose-electron,
   I don't know what "conventional approaches" are, can you provide me with information on continously-working fast comparator?

Thank you for your comment. Smiley



Take a look at this -

http://ece-classweb.ucsd.edu/winter10/ece264c/Comparator_Supplemental.pdf

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boe
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Re: An question about an open-loop comparator
Reply #7 - Feb 9th, 2010, 12:59am
 
ray_wang wrote on Jan 31st, 2010, 2:42am:
...
To BOE,
   You are right, but I believe there is systematic delay for the comparator, not just common intrinsic delay, since 2ns is too large for 0.18um devices.
...
I agree: it is the slewing of the diff stage output to  the trip point of the inverter that dominates the delay here.
BTW: I agree with loose-electron as well.
BOE
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