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switch noise when it is switched off (Read 16310 times)
Frank Wiedmann
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Re: switch noise when it is switched off
Reply #15 - Mar 26th, 2010, 6:04am
 
They do indeed suggest that the other RF simulator is in error. For the circuit they simulated (whatever it was exactly), the other RF simulator showed a strong increase in noise for tightened tolerance settings whereas their AFS simulator did not.
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Ken Kundert
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Re: switch noise when it is switched off
Reply #16 - Mar 27th, 2010, 5:35pm
 
It does not sound like the parametric amplification problem. That effect was independent of the accuracy settings.

-Ken
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vivkr
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Re: switch noise when it is switched off
Reply #17 - Mar 29th, 2010, 3:07am
 
ahem! Please forgive me for saying this, but isn't this discussion going a bit off track? I think we want to discuss the problem with the switch noise. I think the side discussion could easily go on in another thread.

Vivek
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sheldon
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Re: switch noise when it is switched off
Reply #18 - Mar 30th, 2010, 6:02am
 
Lunren,

 I have built a switched capacitor VGA for DSC AFE. It contains a
number of on and off switches. The I ran pss with time domain noise
and calculated the noise at the several time points. Looking at the
noise summary, the dominant noise sources are the input pair,
the current sources for the folded cascodes, and the input common
mode switches.

Questions:
1) The common-mode feedback circuit seems to contribute a lot
   of noise. The common-mode feedback were the largest noise
   contributors until I turned them off. This makes sense sine the
   the common mode has correlation, that is, equally effects each
   of the differential outputs.

2) Have not seen the details of your results, could it be that the
   switch noise is stored on the capacitor during one phase and
   show up in the noise summary during another phase? That is,
   the switch noise is stored on the capacitor during sampling
   and show up at the output during hold.  

   In the next two appends, I will attach the noise summary and
   the PSS waveform.

                                                          Best Regards,

                                                              Sheldon
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sheldon
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Re: switch noise when it is switched off
Reply #19 - Mar 30th, 2010, 6:05am
 
Noise Summary
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sheldon
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Re: switch noise when it is switched off
Reply #20 - Mar 30th, 2010, 6:07am
 
PSS waveform
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sheldon
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Re: switch noise when it is switched off
Reply #21 - Mar 30th, 2010, 6:31am
 
Sorry the schematic did not make it.
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sheldon
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Re: switch noise when it is switched off
Reply #22 - Mar 30th, 2010, 6:32am
 
Another controlled maneuver into the terrain!
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lunren
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Re: switch noise when it is switched off
Reply #23 - Mar 31st, 2010, 12:10pm
 
sheldon wrote on Mar 30th, 2010, 6:02am:
Lunren,

 I have built a switched capacitor VGA for DSC AFE. It contains a
number of on and off switches. The I ran pss with time domain noise
and calculated the noise at the several time points. Looking at the
noise summary, the dominant noise sources are the input pair,
the current sources for the folded cascodes, and the input common
mode switches.

Questions:
1) The common-mode feedback circuit seems to contribute a lot
   of noise. The common-mode feedback were the largest noise
   contributors until I turned them off. This makes sense sine the
   the common mode has correlation, that is, equally effects each
   of the differential outputs.

2) Have not seen the details of your results, could it be that the
   switch noise is stored on the capacitor during one phase and
   show up in the noise summary during another phase? That is,
   the switch noise is stored on the capacitor during sampling
   and show up at the output during hold.  

   In the next two appends, I will attach the noise summary and
   the PSS waveform.

                                                          Best Regards,

                                                              Sheldon

I should mention that the previous simulation results were gotten with general AC noise sims. However, in Pnoise (option sources or timedomain) sims, it seems that the group of off switches didn't contribute much noise and the dominant noise sources are the input pair and the current mirror (load) of the first stage the amp, the sim results with Pnoise seem to be rational.  But in my case, the common mode feedback does not dominate the noise.
I think in switched capacitor circuit, noise indeed will be sampled to cap during one phase and shows up in another phase.
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Best Regards,

Lunren
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