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Is this OP stable? (Read 1563 times)
kane
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Is this OP stable?
Jan 08th, 2013, 9:52pm
 
Hi, all.

   I am designing an 10dB BPF. But I find the phase margin of the OP is good at point A but poor at point B.
   If  this BPF is stable?

I think it is stable ? But not very sure.
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kane
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Re: Does the OP is stable
Reply #1 - Jan 8th, 2013, 9:52pm
 
the phase margin of the OP at point B (at the output of the OP)
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raja.cedt
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Re: Is this OP stable?
Reply #2 - Jan 8th, 2013, 11:11pm
 
Hello,
Where did you break the loop?? How did you find Phase margin. Use STB for better results.

Thanks,
Raj.
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buddypoor
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Re: Does the OP is stable
Reply #3 - Jan 9th, 2013, 12:21am
 
kane wrote on Jan 8th, 2013, 9:52pm:
the phase margin of the OP at point B (at the output of the OP)



You cannot determine the margin at a particular "point".
The phase margin is found by simulating the open-loop response.
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LvW (buddypoor: In memory of the great late Buddy Rich)
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kane
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Re: Is this OP stable?
Reply #4 - Jan 9th, 2013, 5:44pm
 
Thank you ,very much.

Using STB, get the phasemargin is 35. Is that result OK?
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« Last Edit: Jan 9th, 2013, 6:44pm by kane »  
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raja.cedt
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Re: Is this OP stable?
Reply #5 - Jan 9th, 2013, 11:22pm
 
hello,
Please refer basic book on control systems, you need at least 60 if good step Responce is your concern or around 52 (theoretical) if settling time is your concern with small ringing.
Thanks.
Raj
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Erez_Sarig
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Re: Is this OP stable?
Reply #6 - Feb 7th, 2013, 1:14pm
 
Hi,
it looks like your stability test OK. (As long as the input capacitor exists in the schematic for real. it Yes so you have good PM.
Cadence allow you to use STB simulation which do it for you.

Erez
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loose-electron
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Re: Is this OP stable?
Reply #7 - Feb 8th, 2013, 6:40pm
 
35 degrees? Too little phase margin in my opinion.

Expect it to ring in the time domain.

Try a time domain closed loop simulation and see how it responds to a step input.

Also, check it over process corners and it will probably be even less.
Also check it with both high and low common mode input too.
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Jerry Twomey
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threepwood
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Re: Is this OP stable?
Reply #8 - Mar 23rd, 2013, 5:45am
 
kane wrote on Jan 8th, 2013, 9:52pm:
Hi, all.

   I am designing an 10dB BPF. But I find the phase margin of the OP is good at point A but poor at point B.
   If  this BPF is stable?

I think it is stable ? But not very sure.


From your Open Loop AC signal ( called OL(s) )
Create a formula in your calculator: CL(s) = OL(s) / ( 1+OL(s) ) and probe the amplitude in dB20 of this complex expression. If you see any overshoot somewhere, you can consider your circuit is not robustly stable, and if you see a significant peaking you can consider it is unstable.
Then add the phase of CL(s): if you see the amplitude decrease while phase increases, it means you have complex poles with positive real part: it means your loop is totally unstable.

Now the question is: what do you mean by "is it stable?"
a 35deg phase margin circuit is stable "mathematically speaking" because it will converge at t=infinity, but will have lots of ringing.

In all cases, the best test to do is to perform a transient simulation with a step stimuli on the input.
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English is not my mother tongue, so please excuse my mistakes ^^
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