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Issue with Flicker phase noise simulation with PSS + Pnoise of CADENCE (Read 1134 times)
lraf8
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Issue with Flicker phase noise simulation with PSS + Pnoise of CADENCE
Jan 21st, 2013, 6:36am
 
I have a problem with Flicker phase noise of a quartz crystal oscillator (RLC equivalent cirucit + opamp current amplifier + opamp inverter) simulated with PSS + Pnoise of CADENCE:

Indeed I simulate the phase noise of a quartz crystal oscillator and I include only Flicker noise (verilogA) in the feedback opamp inverter. The simulated phase noise shows white phase noise, f-2 phase noise and f-3 phase noise near the carrier, instead of only f-1 phase noise and f-3 phase noise!

Can you please help me solve this problem?

Best regards

Raphael
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rfidea
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Re: Issue with Flicker phase noise simulation with PSS + Pnoise of CADENCE
Reply #1 - Jan 21st, 2013, 11:56am
 
I think you have misunderstand how noise in a oscillator is generated. Usually low frequency noise is upconverted to sidebands around the oscillation frequency. If the original noise is white, or flat, the sidebands will have 1/f^2 slopes. If instead the low frequency noise is 1/f the upconverted noise will be 1/f^3. So, I think your circuit behaves normal.
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lraf8
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Re: Issue with Flicker phase noise simulation with PSS + Pnoise of CADENCE
Reply #2 - Jan 21st, 2013, 12:12pm
 
Thank you for your prompt reply.
In my oscillator model there is no white noise, only flicker noise so there should be only 1/f slope and 1/f3 slope phase noises.
I can confirm that there is only flicker noise contrinution to phase noise with the tool "noise summary" that tells me that 100% of the simulated phase noise comes from flicker noise of the feedback amplifier. and also by plotting the noise voltage I can see there is only flicker noise.
However The phase noise simulated shows a white phase noise and a 1/f2 slope phase noise below Leeson corner frequency !
I tried to change many parameters from PSS and Pnoise but it doesn't change!!
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lraf8
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Re: Issue with Flicker phase noise simulation with PSS + Pnoise of CADENCE
Reply #3 - Jan 22nd, 2013, 2:28am
 
Dear andrew,

Thank you for your prompt answer!

Please find attached to this post:

the input.scs file, the verilogA model of noise, and the simulations results: transient, noise, PSS, Pnoise and noise summary for phase noise.

The Phase noise and its associated noise summary show that there is only Flicker noise contribution to phase noise but there is still 0 slope phase noise and 1/f2 slope phase noise whereas there should be only 1/f slope and 1/f3 slope phase noise !

I hope you have enough informations..

Thanks

Raphael

SCHEMATIC:


 NOISE MODEL (VERILOGA):


 DESIGN VARIABLES:



 INPUT.SCS:

// Generated for: spectre
// Generated on: Jan 22 10:36:50 2013
// Design library name: raphael
// Design cell name: oscillateur_diodes
// Design view name: schematic
simulator lang=spectre
global 0
parameters number_harmonics=20 F=59k max_sideband=20 bruit_blanc=0 \
   bruit_flicker=1u ipulse=100n tstab=50m
include "/home/levy/data/librairie_raf/spice/pmbf4393"
include "/home/levy/data/librairie_raf/spice/1N4500"

// Library name: raphael
// Cell name: oscillateur_diodes
// View name: schematic
R7 (net02 ACout) resistor r=1k isnoisy=no
R6 (CAGout net02) resistor r=10k isnoisy=no
R16 (net3 net13) resistor r=40e6 isnoisy=no
R13 (ACout net3) resistor r=50e6 isnoisy=no
I14 (CAGout net02) 1N4500
I13 (net02 CAGout) 1N4500
I15 (ACout net15 net3 V\+ V\-) opamp gain=1e+06 pole_freq=1e+07 \
       rin=1.2e+07 rout=10 ibias=0 vin_offset=0 noise=0
I12 (CAGout 0 net02 V\+ V\-) opamp gain=1e+06 pole_freq=1e+07 rin=1.2e+07 \
       rout=10 ibias=0 vin_offset=0 noise=0
I41 (0 net15) generateur_bruit noise_generator=bruit_blanc \
       flicker=bruit_flicker
I37 (0 net3) isource type=pulse val0=0 val1=ipulse delay=10u rise=1n \
       fall=1n width=10u
L1 (net13 net12) inductor l=130.0K isnoisy=no
C6 (net12 CAGout) capacitor c=55.0a
V1 (V\+ 0) vsource dc=8 type=dc
V0 (V\- 0) vsource dc=-8 type=dc
simulatorOptions options reltol=1e-7 vabstol=1e-10 iabstol=1e-13 temp=27 \
   tnom=27 homotopy=all limit=delta scalem=1.0 scale=1.0 \
   compatible=spice2 gmin=1e-12 rforce=1 maxnotes=5 maxwarns=5 digits=5 \
   cols=80 pivrel=1e-3 sensfile="../psf/sens.output" checklimitdest=psf
pss  (  ACout  0  )  pss  fund=F  harms=number_harmonics
+    errpreset=moderate  tstab=tstab  tstabmethod=gear2only
+    annotate=status
pnoise  (  ACout  0  )  pnoise  sweeptype=relative  relharmnum=1
+       start=1e-8  stop=1e8  dec=5  maxsideband=max_sideband
+       augmented=yes  annotate=status  saveallsidebands=yes  lorentzian=no
+       ppv=yes
noise ( ACout 0 ) noise start=1e-9 stop=1e6 annotate=status
designParamVals info what=parameters where=rawfile
primitives info what=primitives where=rawfile
subckts info what=subckts  where=rawfile
saveOptions options save=allpub
ahdl_include "/data/levy/librairie_raf/resonateurAMS/opamp_MW/veriloga/veriloga.va"
ahdl_include "/data/levy/librairie_raf/resonateurAMS/generateur_bruit/veriloga/veriloga.va"

TRANSIENT:



NOISE:


PSS:



PNOISE:




 NOISE SUMMARY:





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