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question about oscillators (Read 26543 times)
trond
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question about oscillators
Aug 03rd, 2005, 2:11am
 
Hello all,

I have a simple question about VCO's. We all know that with a rising level of input magnitude the VCO output frequency will go up. What happens if the input signal is a sine wave centred on zero, ie, amplitude levels of +-0.5V? Is the output frequency still highest at 0.5 and lowest at -0.5, meaning, can the VCO distinguish between positive and negative input levels?
With the mathematical model I could offset the input, but then the output PSD would have a dc signal in it which I don’t want.

Thanks,
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Andrew Beckett
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Re: question about oscillators
Reply #1 - Aug 3rd, 2005, 4:51am
 
Surely this will depend entirely on how the VCO is designed? I don't think a generic answer is possible. I would expect in most cases that provided the entire swing of the VCO input is within the input range of the VCO, the output frequency would usually (for most VCOs) have the lowest frequency at the minimum value of the sine wave, and the highest frequency at the maximum.

This is a bit of an odd question... perhaps there's something behind what you're asking? It doesn't make much sense to me (or rather the answer seems too obvious unless there's some detail you've omitted).

Andrew.
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Visjnoe
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Re: question about oscillators
Reply #2 - Aug 5th, 2005, 1:59pm
 

Hi,

First, let's assume that VCTRL = 0V is a valid input DC level for the VCO design (VCTRL being the node/port which controls the varactor capacitance).

So, @VCTRL = 0V, the VCO is oscillating at a certain frequency wo. Now, what happens if you apply a sine (frequency f1) with amplitude +/-A centered around 0V?

VCTRL becomes: VCTRL = 0 +Asin(2*pi*f1*t).

What happens can be most easily seen in the frequency domain: besides the fundamental tone @wo, two sideband-tones @wo-f1 and @wo+f1 will appear. Their magnitude relative to the fundamental tone will be determined by the KVCO (frequency gain/Volt) of your VCO.


You can verify this formally by putting the expression for VCTRL in the general VCO equation. I refer to the book by Razavi for more details.

Kind regards,

Peter
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Re: question about oscillators
Reply #3 - Aug 5th, 2005, 2:01pm
 

Hi,

there's a slight mistake in my previous post:

the tones appear @wo -2*pi*f1 and @wo+2*pi*f1
(rad/s versus Hz... Smiley)

Kind Regards,

Peter
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trond
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Re: question about oscillators
Reply #4 - Aug 13th, 2005, 12:48am
 
Hello,

Yes, I know what you are talking about since I have read Razavi's pages on VCO. However, this won't solve my offset problem. Please consider a VCO in the forward path of a system with negative feedback. If I apply a +/- signal I need to offset the free running freq. to keep a positive frequency. (Andrew, sorry for the misunderstanding).
This will introduce a dc signal in the output which can be seen in the PSD. To avoid it I could place an 1/s integrator before the VCO which will suppress the dc signal. Then, everything will be fine. However, is there is there a different way of suppressing the dc signal? I hope I am making more sense this time.

Cheers.

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Andrew Beckett
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Re: question about oscillators
Reply #5 - Aug 14th, 2005, 12:07am
 
Are you suggesting that the VCO frequency will be DC with a 0 input voltage? I'd say such a VCO would be rather hard to design! (especially if you want high frequencies out of it
as well) - except of course if the VCO simply stops working with 0 volt input...

VCOs normally have some sort of centre frequency and gain, and a finite tuning range.

Perhaps I've misunderstood your question (still)?

Regards,

Andrew.
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trond
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Re: question about oscillators
Reply #6 - Aug 14th, 2005, 1:02am
 
Well, yes and no. Thinking of it it will indeed be very hard to have the freq. to be dc at 0 volt input. My models so far were doing excatly that. But I can easlily change that. At the moment I am still using ideal models as the one from the AMS section. Thanks for you feedback though.

Speaking of modelling. I was wondering about the power consumption of VCOs, i.e ring oscillators. Considering the acquisition range only we would expect the input the the VCO to change and thus the output frequency. Is it correct to assume that the power during acquisition bill be dynamic and can be expressed as P=Vdd2CLfout_average?

Here, CL would be the load of each cell, or rather the parasitic capacitance associated with a simple inverter cell and fout_average be the average output frequency of the VCO. I would also think that the above equation would have to multiplied by the number of stages in the ring oscillator.

Is it correct to use above equation for the power conumption of a VCO during acquisition?
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Re: question about oscillators
Reply #7 - Aug 15th, 2005, 12:32pm
 
Most "ideal" VCO models would still be based around a
centre frequency. Even ideal models need to be vaguely model reality!

Andrew.
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ywguo
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Re: question about oscillators
Reply #8 - Aug 17th, 2005, 6:22pm
 
Svensl,

Quote:
I was wondering about the power consumption of VCOs, i.e ring oscillators. Considering the acquisition range only we would expect the input the the VCO to change and thus the output frequency. Is it correct to assume that the power during acquisition bill be dynamic and can be expressed as P=Vdd2CLfout_average?


First, why do you need model the power consumption of VCOs?

Second, the power consumption of VCOs depends on its design but not acquistion or steady state. Furthermore,
                 P=Vdd2CLfout_average
is not a general equation for VCO.



Best regards,
Yawei
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trond
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Re: question about oscillators
Reply #9 - Aug 18th, 2005, 1:38am
 
Yawei,

Thanks for your feedback.
I know that the implementation of the VCO dictates the power consumption. But considering only a ring oscillator made up of N single-ended inverter cells, then would it not be right to assume that P=Vd2CLFvco_ave  is approx. valid?

You said that " The power consumption of VCOs depends on its design but not acquistion or steady state."
But the time required for the PLL to lock to a new  frequency can be expressed as taqu = tcapture + tlock .
For the estimation of the power consumption during the capture process, I assumed that the VCO frequency follows the variation on the control voltage. Thus, P=Vd2CLFvco_ave where Fvco_ave is the difference between the start frequency, and the end frequency.
The locked condition can be considered a stable state. There are no drastic changes and most of the variables like Kvco and fvco are constant. To estimate the power during the locked range I consider that for  a non-differential implementation, at any given time, just one cell is switching. Thus the current would be something like I=VddCL/td where td=1/2/N/fvco.

Out of curiosity, how would you model the power consumption of a ring-osc. during aquisition range?

Cheers,
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Re: question about oscillators
Reply #10 - Aug 18th, 2005, 2:27am
 
Svensl,

I have never modeled the power consumption of VCOs in acquistition mode. Normally, I only measure the power consumption in steady state.

For a ring oscillator made up of N single-ended inverter cells,  I think that P=2N*Vd2CLFvco  is approx. valid, where CL is the load capacitance of each stage.


Best regards
Yawei
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Re: question about oscillators
Reply #11 - Aug 18th, 2005, 2:35am
 
Thanks. This is exciting.

I was also wondering how one would express the dynamic range of a ring-oscillator? For example, in SC circuits where the main noise is kT/C we have something like DR=Vin2Csample/(8kT).
Is there a similar equivalent for VCO's? If so, are there any references I could look up.

Thanks
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Re: question about oscillators
Reply #12 - Aug 18th, 2005, 4:37am
 
Svensl,

According to my personal opinion, in the past 10 years, the most important contributors to the theory about the noise in VCOs are Alper Demir, Ali Hajimiri, and John G. McNeill.

Please refer to their papers and thesises.


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Yawei
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Re: question about oscillators
Reply #13 - Aug 18th, 2005, 10:32am
 
Demir's work is difficult to penetrate, Hajimiri's work is seriously flawed, and MacNeill's work is largely on jitter. You might be better served taking a look at the material on this site. For example, the cyclostationary noise paper found at http://www.designers-guide.org/Theory/. You can also try http://www.designers-guide.org/Analysis/PLLnoise+jitter.pdf or http://www.designers-guide.org/Analysis/rf-sim.pdf.

For more design insights, try http://www.designers-guide.org/Books/dg-osc/index.html.
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Re: question about oscillators
Reply #14 - Aug 19th, 2005, 4:41am
 
Jitter Man,

I agree that Demir's work is very mathematical and that McNeill uses more the time-domain approach, but I am somewhat surprised by the strength of your statement on Hajimiri's work. Can you give some arguments why you consider it as "seriously flawed", even though many people use it as a starting point for their designs? I believe this could be very useful for many of us.

What do you think of T.Weigandt's work?
http://kabuki.eecs.berkeley.edu/~weigandt/phd.pdf

In advance many thanks for your comments.

Paul



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