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Design OSC (Read 12612 times)
AZADBAKHT
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Design OSC
Aug 14th, 2014, 6:05am
 
HI guys

i wanna design Frequency Synthesizer.when i design VCO,for OSC Resonance i constrained chose over 750 ohm Resistor.
in you're opinion,my design is valid?
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« Last Edit: Aug 14th, 2014, 11:35pm by AZADBAKHT »  

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loose-electron
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Re: Design OSC
Reply #1 - Aug 14th, 2014, 5:06pm
 
Your question is not understandable.
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AZADBAKHT
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Re: Design OSC
Reply #2 - Aug 14th, 2014, 11:37pm
 
i'm so sorry loose-electron...
i try to edit my question
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Re: Design OSC
Reply #3 - Aug 15th, 2014, 2:01am
 
Hi,

Its more accurate to model the inductor's parasitic resistance in series with the ideal inductor. Is that what you are asking?

Aaron
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AZADBAKHT
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Re: Design OSC
Reply #4 - Aug 15th, 2014, 6:36am
 
Hi aaron_do

yes,i know this resistance it's parasitic model for tank.
but,in you're opinion i can build an tank with 750 ohm resistance(parasitic model)?
at RLC parallel tank:

R=[√(L/C)]*Q      >>>>                (L=1nH , C=10fF)

the formula illustrate for have R=750 must Q is high!!

you think i can build the this tank??
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Re: Design OSC
Reply #5 - Aug 15th, 2014, 8:04am
 
Well...you didn't specify your operating frequency or what technology you are using to design your inductors. Where did you get that value for C? It looks like your operating frequency is extremely high...

If your PDK has inductors you can easily check. Otherwise you can use an EM simulator.


Aaron
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AZADBAKHT
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Re: Design OSC
Reply #6 - Aug 15th, 2014, 9:33am
 
ok ,i working at CMOS-90nm Technology
VCO tuning range is 5GHZ-10GHZ then C capacity is vicinity 40fF-10fF
and i simulate the design and calculate Q
Q is 4-6.66

with this Q i can't design an Tank with 750 ohm loss
nonetheless,in you're opinion i can use a real Resistance in Tank for post layout simulation?
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Re: Design OSC
Reply #7 - Aug 15th, 2014, 10:06am
 
At the frequency stated you need a much better model of the inductors and the non ideal parasitics. To get meaningful results you will also need a set of parasitics for every node in the system.
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Re: Design OSC
Reply #8 - Aug 15th, 2014, 12:16pm
 
tnx a lot sir loose-electron.
how i can set parasitic for every node in system?
my software is cadence.
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Re: Design OSC
Reply #9 - Aug 15th, 2014, 1:01pm
 
tnx a lot sir loose-electron.
how i can set parasitic for every node in system?
my software is cadence.
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Re: Design OSC
Reply #10 - Aug 15th, 2014, 6:48pm
 
Since you know what post-layout simulation is, you know how to get the parasitics at all the nodes. However, you need some way to extract inductance too. Try an EM simulator like ADS momentum. As loose-electron implied, if you model the inductor as just an ideal inductor with a parallel resistance at that frequency, your results will be wrong.


regards,
Aaron
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AZADBAKHT
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Re: Design OSC
Reply #11 - Aug 15th, 2014, 10:59pm
 
ok
understand,can i use the cadence-virtuoso software for design inductor real?
or i must use the ADS?
i don't know how to set the parasitic model at all node in the system in cadence-virtuoso.
you know how that?
tnx a lot  Aaron.
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Re: Design OSC
Reply #12 - Aug 16th, 2014, 5:23pm
 
Suggest that you talk with your design team locally about getting better models. Everybody sets up their model sets differently so you need to contact whoever is responsible for the design tools and semiconductor models that you are using
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Re: Design OSC
Reply #13 - Aug 16th, 2014, 10:40pm
 
ok
tnx a lot for you're help sir loose-electron
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Re: Design OSC
Reply #14 - Aug 17th, 2014, 6:31am
 
Hi,


Quote:
i don't know how to set the parasitic model at all node in the system in cadence-virtuoso.


after creating your layout, you need to create an extracted model using Calibre or Assura. But you need to design the inductors separately using an EM simulator.

Actually these are the something like the basics of using the software, and it would be better if you could find somebody in your own lab who can go over this with you (I'm assuming you're doing this at a University).


regards,
Aaron
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