The Designer's Guide Community
Forum
Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register. Please follow the Forum guidelines.
May 18th, 2024, 2:33pm
Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print
Estimate pk-pJitter using eye diagram in SpectreRF (Read 17739 times)
Ken Kundert
Global Moderator
*****
Offline



Posts: 2384
Silicon Valley
Re: Estimate pk-pJitter using eye diagram in Spect
Reply #15 - Feb 11th, 2005, 9:35am
 
Initially you indicated that your oscillator frequency was 2MHz, then you said it was 4MHz. Either way I would not expect you to have a slew rate of 20GV/s. Is this really right? If so, why do you believe 0.5 fs is too small?

Also, did you multiply by sqrt(f0*30us) to convert period jitter into k-cycle jitter?

-Ken
Back to top
 
 
View Profile WWW   IP Logged
ic_engr
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 135

Re: Estimate pk-pJitter using eye diagram in Spect
Reply #16 - Feb 11th, 2005, 9:41am
 
Ken,

The oscillator frequency is fo=4MHz. what I said was fo/2 = 2MHz.
The oscillator output is a square wave with a rise time from 100mV to 1.1V of 40pSec, therefore, the Slew Rate is indeed 1/40psec=20GV/sec.

No I did not multiply the period jitter by sqrt(fo*30us) yet. The reason I suspect 0.5fSec is too low because the current in each stage of my ring oscillator is very low. Its a low power design and therefore I am not optimisitic that my jitter will that good.

Thx

ic_engr
Back to top
 
 
View Profile   IP Logged
Ken Kundert
Global Moderator
*****
Offline



Posts: 2384
Silicon Valley
Re: Estimate pk-pJitter using eye diagram in Spect
Reply #17 - Feb 11th, 2005, 5:36pm
 
It does seem a little too good, but I don't know what else to suggest.

-Ken
Back to top
 
 
View Profile WWW   IP Logged
ic_engr
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 135

Re: Estimate pk-pJitter using eye diagram in Spect
Reply #18 - Feb 12th, 2005, 6:08am
 
Ken,

I made some modifications to the ring oscillator design. I increased the current and maintained same frequency. When I run standard PSS and Pnoise simulation what I note is that the slope of the Phase noise plot is 30dB/decade upto near the fundamental freq. The fundamental is 4MHz.

The usual fc (1/f noise corner I used to see is now gone.

Can you help me understand what's happened.

Tx

ic_engr
Back to top
 
 
View Profile   IP Logged
ic_engr
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 135

Re: Estimate pk-pJitter using eye diagram in Spect
Reply #19 - Feb 12th, 2005, 9:12am
 
Does this mean that fc doesnot exist in the new design. The slope is all the way -30dB/dec.

Pleas let me know.


ic_engr.
Back to top
 
 
View Profile   IP Logged
Andrew Beckett
Senior Fellow
******
Offline

Life, don't talk to
me about Life...

Posts: 1742
Bracknell, UK
Re: Estimate pk-pJitter using eye diagram in Spect
Reply #20 - Feb 13th, 2005, 10:02am
 
This usually occurs because you set maxsidebands in the pnoise analysis to "0" - whereas it should be a number large enough to include all significant contributions. Setting it to 0 in particular will omit any up-converted flicker noise from DC, so that's often a cause.

Regards,

Andrew.
Back to top
 
 
View Profile WWW   IP Logged
ic_engr
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 135

Re: Estimate pk-pJitter using eye diagram in Spect
Reply #21 - Feb 14th, 2005, 3:23am
 
I did check the Maxsidebands and it is set to 12. So I am not sure what's happening. The change I did is that I made the bias circuit with a resistor. The slope is all the way -30dB/dec.

Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.


Thx

ic_engr
Back to top
 
 
View Profile   IP Logged
Andrew Beckett
Senior Fellow
******
Offline

Life, don't talk to
me about Life...

Posts: 1742
Bracknell, UK
Re: Estimate pk-pJitter using eye diagram in Spect
Reply #22 - Feb 14th, 2005, 4:52am
 
You might want to look at the noise contributions. I suspect that your noise may be dominated by the noise from the bias circuitry (I don't think that's necessarily unusual, if there's high gain from the bias circuitry to the output), and since that doesn't have any flicker noise, you don't see the flicker knee.

Can't remember if you're running in ADE - but if you are, use the noise contribution UI (under the results menu) to take a look at which devices contribute the most noise.

Regards,

Andrew.

Back to top
 
 
View Profile WWW   IP Logged
ic_engr
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 135

Re: Estimate pk-pJitter using eye diagram in Spect
Reply #23 - Feb 14th, 2005, 1:32pm
 
You are right I did check and its due to the resistor. Okay So can I then estimate jitter with the phase noise plot I have or not.

Since the expressions in Ken's paper do mention that the slope should be -20dB/dec and I have -30dB/dec will these be valid to use.

ic_engr
Back to top
 
 
View Profile   IP Logged
Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print
Copyright 2002-2024 Designer’s Guide Consulting, Inc. Designer’s Guide® is a registered trademark of Designer’s Guide Consulting, Inc. All rights reserved. Send comments or questions to editor@designers-guide.org. Consider submitting a paper or model.