The Designer's Guide Community
Forum
Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register. Please follow the Forum guidelines.
May 9th, 2024, 7:34am
Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print
Beat frequency for a dual modulus divider (Read 19484 times)
pancho_hideboo
Senior Fellow
******
Offline



Posts: 1424
Real Homeless
Re: Beat frequency for a dual modulus divider
Reply #15 - Mar 22nd, 2010, 8:32am
 
Andrew Beckett wrote on Mar 22nd, 2010, 8:29am:
Did you mean "In order to confirm periodicity, you should use the auto-correlation function rather than the Fourier transform"?
Yes.

Andrew Beckett wrote on Mar 22nd, 2010, 8:29am:
From what you said, it sounded as if using a Fourier transform on something that is periodic is not correct - but I'm sure that's not what you meant (if you did, perhaps you can explain why?).
Fourier Series Expansion requires fundamental period value for calculation which we want to evaluate.

This is also true for Fourier Transform.
If we don't have much frequency resolution, we could miss true long fundamental period.

Of course, this resolution issue is true for auto-correlation evaluation.
But regarding detection of periodicity, auto-correlation Analysis is superior than Fourier Analysis,
since we don't have to put importance in an accuracy of amplitude value for auto-correlation.
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: Mar 22nd, 2010, 12:07pm by pancho_hideboo »  
View Profile WWW Top+Secret Top+Secret   IP Logged
Andrew Beckett
Senior Fellow
******
Offline

Life, don't talk to
me about Life...

Posts: 1742
Bracknell, UK
Re: Beat frequency for a dual modulus divider
Reply #16 - Mar 22nd, 2010, 8:45am
 
OK that's clear. We are in agreement - it was just your statement could have been interpreted to mean that one shouldn't use a Fourier Transform (or Fourier Series expansion) on a periodic response, but that isn't what you meant.

Regards,

Andrew.
Back to top
 
 
View Profile WWW   IP Logged
Ken Kundert
Global Moderator
*****
Offline



Posts: 2384
Silicon Valley
Re: Beat frequency for a dual modulus divider
Reply #17 - Mar 22nd, 2010, 9:04am
 
The most practical and sensitive method I have found for checking periodicity with a circuit simulator is to use strobing and set the strobe period to the expected period. Then run a transient simulation for many cycles and plot the results. Look at the waveforms at a variety of nodes. A particularly good signal to look at is the supply current. If they all become constant valued, then the system is periodic in the given period. I have used this method to find subtle oscillations and small amounts of chaotic behavior for dead-zones that have prevented convergence of PSS.

But again, I only do this to determine why PSS is not converging. I have always found that if PSS converges, you have the right period.

-Ken
Back to top
 
 
View Profile WWW   IP Logged
Andrew Beckett
Senior Fellow
******
Offline

Life, don't talk to
me about Life...

Posts: 1742
Bracknell, UK
Re: Beat frequency for a dual modulus divider
Reply #18 - Mar 22nd, 2010, 9:33am
 
Ken,

I agree with you. The autocorrelation function is primarily useful (in my opinion) for looking for patterns in what you might otherwise expect to be random data. I would never use it as a check for periodicity in a circuit I was to simulate with PSS.

I was just trying to figure out what Pancho Hideboo was saying...

Regards,

Andrew.
Back to top
 
 
View Profile WWW   IP Logged
Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print
Copyright 2002-2024 Designer’s Guide Consulting, Inc. Designer’s Guide® is a registered trademark of Designer’s Guide Consulting, Inc. All rights reserved. Send comments or questions to editor@designers-guide.org. Consider submitting a paper or model.